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    Originally posted by fishbowlhead View Post
    We all know Bethesda make technically crap games that run on a shocking level and are broken to the stars (pun intended). They get away with it because a certain group genuinely find them fun, I mean they all sell enough just off the hype train.
    For me personally, I love Elder Scrolls and Fallout, especially the latter.

    I won a PS3 copy of Fallout 3 and a little artbook from a radio competition, but didn't play it because I didn't think it would be any good after seeing a video where a guy was moaning that it took loads of headshots to kill an enemy.

    However, my 360 got RRoD, so I had to play my PS3 a bit more and took a chance on Fallout 3 and I absolutely bloody loved it.
    I loved the story of being raised in a mysterious bunker and then heading out into the post apocalyptic world to explore, with no real agenda except a couple of plot breadcrumbs.

    Some bits were intriguing and had interesting stories to tell (do you blow up the town built on a bomb, try talking to the disfigured ghouls) other bits were really intriguing or stressfully packed with enemies.
    I loved trying out different companions to see how they'd assist.

    I played Vegas on the 360 and rinsed that too. Then playing through to get the "Hardcore" achievement.
    Then playing all the DLC, which came bundled with the GotY disc, that totally transformed the game (simulation, casino heist, mad professor etc.). No hype other than my own enjoyment of FO3.

    Got my PS4 and a bunch of games for my birthday. Installed The Last of Us, but it was Fallout 4 that got its (death) claws into me.
    Firstly enjoying mooching around - something I LOVE in videogames - then I did the story and then I did load of base building, which was fairly rudimentary, but a lot of fun coming up with traps for potential raiders.

    Pretty sure I Platinumed all 3 games, just playing through and enjoying it.

    Every time, I got the GotY version, so most the bugs were fixed when I played them. Maybe 1 glitch max? Definitely not "broken to the stars". Each time playing for months on end, like 6 to 8 months each, immersed in the world they created.

    I'm totally one of those people who genuinely find them fun.
    I can't see how that's a problem?

    I like the series so much, I'm keeping an eye one what the Bethesda/Microsoft merger means, because I really, really want to play Fallout 5 and would consider getting current Xbox to play it, if I had to!

    I try to be the kind of person who enthuses over games they love and the Fallout series is definitely that.
    It's a shame you can't get into them, because I think they're brilliant.

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      Spot on. Silly to sad they are bad and broken. They are some of most fun games ever made, that's why they sell tens of millions of copies.

      I lean more on the TES side than the FO side personally. Some of my most treasured gaming memories were spent immersed in those worlds. I remember getting Oblivion on release on the 360, and it was the first TES I'd properly been able to play, and I was just absolutely blown away. I was so obsessed I remember taking a break, going into the (real life) kitchen and seeing some apples and wondering why there wasn't a HUD element floating in front of them telling how much they weighed and their resale value.

      Skyrim took it to the next level and I was totally obsessed with that too. Think I did about 250 hours on it (small fry compared to some).

      They're unique games for me in that they give a sense of genuine freedom and agency. The main story is kinda usually the least interesting part honestly. It's forging your own path that rocks.

      I was so happy when watching the Starfield Direct yesterday to see how much Bethesda understood that. It was like, yeah, here's the main story about the Constellation and the alien artifacts, but also - hey, look, you can become a smuggler, or build a mech, or fill a room with sandwiches.

      There's no other game like them for me and I really love them. Also, I don't give a **** about bugs and framerates

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        I'm mostly hoping Starfield doesn't bog itself down with systems. That was one of the reasons Fallout 4 failed to land with me as well as the prior Bethesda era games, that and it felt like Bethesda had struggled to come up with as many interesting locations etc. I assume Avowed started out as Obsidians attempt to tackle the lack of a Skyrim etc but pivoted when Bethesda was snapped up

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          I played Fallout 76 with a friend last year for a good 6 months. I can tell you that game is held together with ducktape and clingfilm, but I had a blast on it. I only heard bad things, but as soon as I started playing it, that 'Bethesdaness' grabbed me. The fact you fell through the scenery or janked through doorframes only made it more funny.

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            One of my most played games last year was Skyrim VR.
            I'd be stuck in my headset for hours at a time firing my virtual bow!

            I really need to get back into it, but a combination of summer heat and Elden Ring refining the formula has made me put it off for a bit. However, I was happily playing a game from 2011 in 2022 and it was still a total thrill!

            However, I loved and completed Oblivion. Wasn't that a reeeeally early 360 game?
            Ah March 2006 after the November 2005 launch.

            An idea I had for DLC was that you're part of a giant battle on a field when all of a sudden, the clouds formed and a UFO lands and all these aliens come out of the ship to attack, so both sides of the battle have to unite to destroy the alien onslaught! (a bit like Army of Darkness but with Aliens rather than Deadites).

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              Originally posted by QualityChimp View Post
              One of my most played games last year was Skyrim VR.
              I'd be stuck in my headset for hours at a time firing my virtual bow!

              I really need to get back into it, but a combination of summer heat and Elden Ring refining the formula has made me put it off for a bit. However, I was happily playing a game from 2011 in 2022 and it was still a total thrill!

              However, I loved and completed Oblivion. Wasn't that a reeeeally early 360 game?
              Ah March 2006 after the November 2005 launch.

              An idea I had for DLC was that you're part of a giant battle on a field when all of a sudden, the clouds formed and a UFO lands and all these aliens come out of the ship to attack, so both sides of the battle have to unite to destroy the alien onslaught! (a bit like Army of Darkness but with Aliens rather than Deadites).
              Yes I got Oblivion with my 360 on launch I believe. I was blown away by the water effects! Played that game to death.
              Ah the 360, what a console.

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                Yeah Oblivion was super early. I think I got my machine in January so it came out about two months later. It felt like a quantum leap over what had been possible on the PS2. This amazing world where you could go anywhere, rendered in lifelike (for the time) HD.

                I got really obsessed with larping as a thief/assassin type (this happens to me in every TES and I fully expect it to happen in Starfield). I got vampirism and initially I was thinking, oh no, I need to find the cure, but then the cure was kinda hard to find so I just fully embraced it, became mostly nocturnal and would spend most of time breaking into people's houses in the dead of night, feeding on their blood and nicking their stuff

                Originally posted by QualityChimp
                An idea I had for DLC was that you're part of a giant battle on a field when all of a sudden, the clouds formed and a UFO lands and all these aliens come out of the ship to attack, so both sides of the battle have to unite to destroy the alien onslaught! (a bit like Army of Darkness but with Aliens rather than Deadites).


                Ha, this is a great idea. Although one flaw with both Oblivion and Skyrim was how technical limitations meant any pitched battle was always comically small scale, with maybe half a dozen people on each side!

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                  Originally posted by wakka View Post
                  Yeah Oblivion was super early. I think I got my machine in January so it came out about two months later. It felt like a quantum leap over what had been possible on the PS2. This amazing world where you could go anywhere, rendered in lifelike (for the time) HD.

                  I got really obsessed with larping as a thief/assassin type (this happens to me in every TES and I fully expect it to happen in Starfield). I got vampirism and initially I was thinking, oh no, I need to find the cure, but then the cure was kinda hard to find so I just fully embraced it, became mostly nocturnal and would spend most of time breaking into people's houses in the dead of night, feeding on their blood and nicking their stuff
                  I burnt though all the guilds in this including the weird cloaky gang that had you murdering people, this was one of the last quests i had to do as i had burnt though everything else, The game was so broken by end game that you could enchant each piece of Armour you had with invisibility for better stealth, The problem here was if you enchanted enough pieces you where completely invisible and nobody would attack you, it was like a god mode and made the game super easy.

                  I think i didn't understand how the leveling worked either, as you has to level up 10 stats one time to gain a level, i just stuck stats into random stuff so was super low level at the end of the game good times


                  i think it was my first 1000 score xbox game too.
                  Last edited by Lebowski; 12-06-2023, 15:11.

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                    Yeah that was in the early days of achievements when developers didn't really know how to use them. As I recall you simply got one achievement for every guild level achieved! There were no fun achievements at all, it was the most basic implementation imaginable.

                    The guild you're describing is the Dark Brotherhood. Loved that one.

                    I did everything in the game too. The very last one I did was the Fighter's Guild as that interested me the least. I was so incredibly OP by that point and had so many stats poured into stealth that I think I literally just speed ran in Sneak all the way to the end of each mission for it and didn't even bother killing anyone except a mission critical person at the end if I had to

                    Yeah it was broken in so many ways but so much fun to break it, if that makes sense.

                    I always remember the mission where you had to go inside a painting and solve a murder. That was such a cool one.

                    In Skyrim I got massively obsessed with the DLC where you could have your own house and expended untold amounts of time decorating and furnishing my house with all the stuff I had collected over my hundreds of hours playing. I spent more time furnishing that house than my actual IRL flat

                    I love that in Starfield your ship seems very like the Skyrim 'house' DLC (think it was called Hearthfire). I'm really gonna get into it pimping it out with all the random stuff I collect.

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                      I liked how the ship building looked like you can just click it all together however you like.
                      Im gunna make some weird ****!

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                        Hopefully the gun play doesn’t follow the fallout formula of dice rolling.

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                          Yeah that really surprised me. The bit where they showed the Gundam-style mech they had created was bonkers! Love the flexibility and again it really demonstrated to me that they have totally got a handle on exactly what is so good about their games and why they are so enduringly popular. It's all about the freedom to larp and build your own story.

                          Liked the bit where they showed the approach from lightspeed to New Atlantis (the main city), and it showed the player's ship being scanned for contraband and then cleared for approach.

                          As someone who always plays thief/rogue type that's going to be cool to circumvent. I have vague memories of sneaking into various buildings via the sewers in older TES games in order to dodge the fact that I had a bounty on my head.

                          One other random 'broken TES' thing that just crossed my mind that was funny in Oblivion was if you maxed out your Acrobatic skill, then got jacked up on Skooma, then approached certain cities from the right angle or a hill or something, you could actual jump straight over the walls into them.

                          Obviously since you hadn't navigated in via an actual gateway nothing would have loaded and you'd just be in this odd netherworld.

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                            Originally posted by wakka View Post
                            Yeah that was in the early days of achievements when developers didn't really know how to use them. As I recall you simply got one achievement for every guild level achieved! There were no fun achievements at all, it was the most basic implementation imaginable.

                            The guild you're describing is the Dark Brotherhood. Loved that one.

                            I did everything in the game too. The very last one I did was the Fighter's Guild as that interested me the least. I was so incredibly OP by that point and had so many stats poured into stealth that I think I literally just speed ran in Sneak all the way to the end of each mission for it and didn't even bother killing anyone except a mission critical person at the end if I had to

                            Yeah it was broken in so many ways but so much fun to break it, if that makes sense.

                            I always remember the mission where you had to go inside a painting and solve a murder. That was such a cool one.

                            In Skyrim I got massively obsessed with the DLC where you could have your own house and expended untold amounts of time decorating and furnishing my house with all the stuff I had collected over my hundreds of hours playing. I spent more time furnishing that house than my actual IRL flat

                            I love that in Starfield your ship seems very like the Skyrim 'house' DLC (think it was called Hearthfire). I'm really gonna get into it pimping it out with all the random stuff I collect.

                            I'm hoping that with Starfield that i don't have to have all them randos in my ship/house, id much rather just explore the galaxy on my own like a hobo space bachelor. i never bothred with the supports in Skyrim as they where bloody awful.

                            The first someone needs to do though is create a mod where the camera snaps to zooms in on whoever is talking, cant wait for stuff like the below to start popping up, in vids too as it all adds to the charm.

                            Last edited by Lebowski; 12-06-2023, 16:42.

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                              Well unfortunately for you, 'companions' are very much a part of Starfield. I agree they were always useless in previous games, Lydia running about behind you yelling 'barks' like a bloody lunatic while you're trying to stealthily sneak in somewhere.

                              They might work a bit differently in this one though. One of the Direct's talking heads was the 'Companions director' and they talked about how they're basically your staff and they hang out on your ship and at your outposts and do stuff for you.

                              While I'm under no illusions about the level of AI we'll be dealing with here - set lolfactor to lmao, imo - I quite like the idea of working my way up to running my own little empire of staff generating me cash at my outposts.

                              I suspect some aspects of larger ships will require staff to man them too as you won't be able to do everything yourself.

                              I reckon if you wanted to dart about in a smaller ship on your own it's probably possible, though.

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                                Originally posted by fishbowlhead View Post
                                Hopefully the gun play doesn’t follow the fallout formula of dice rolling.
                                V.A.T.S. is dice roll based, the real-time combat is not in Fallout 3 / New Vegas / Fallout 4 / Fallout 76 - in fact, I don't believe ES is either since post Morrowind.

                                I think most Fallout players would say that V.A.T.S. was a brilliant way of keeping some of the combat feel from the early games in the new ones, and there was no requirement to use it.
                                Last edited by MartyG; 12-06-2023, 16:59.

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