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**Dogg Thang** · 12-04-2022, 13:05

I feel like Sega haven't been great generally at making the most from some of their older IP. The Sonic Racing games really highlighted how so many of them have a wonderful distinct identity and yet most are gathering dust. With some of them, they didn't quite live up to potential, largely due to what was happening at the time, and yet they still could make for amazing games.

Billy Hatcher, for example, was prone to awful wonkiness and camera nonsense of its time that the likes of Sonic Heroes and even Mario Sunshine suffered from. And yet it's a lovely game at heart and, while I got really frustrated with it, I'd love to see one without those problem. I've always felt Burning Rangers has incredible potential once taken away from the limitations of the Saturn - the vibe and world are fantastic.

Other games, I feel did deliver even back in their day but I still feel like they have so much more to offer: Ecco the Dolphin, Panzer Dragoon (we had a recent remake... no sign of the second one yet), Nights Into Dreams (we had a sequel but it wasn't great).

And some were essentially perfect on first release so have always been a bit tricky to follow up: Crazy Taxi and Monkey Ball come to mind.

Even outside of those games, there are fantastic worlds, characters and vibes in here and I'd love to see Sega make much more of them.

**endo** · 12-04-2022, 21:09

I'd love to see a new OutRun, even (I'll whisper it) if it had to be without Ferraris to avoid licensing issues (like OutRun 2 and Online Arcade being delisted from online stores).

I'd also love to a see something happen with Golden Axe, preferably in 2D. I dimly remember a ****ty 3D game several years ago, but I think a new 2D game or a remake could be great - Dragon's Crown notwithstanding. Streets of Rage 4 has shown that it's possible, so I don't see why it wouldn't work for Golden Axe.

New Scud Racer and Daytona games would be very welcome too and a modern ESWAT game could be cool, but I've no idea what form that would take.

**Colin** · 12-04-2022, 21:27

As much as I love SEGA, I wouldn't be fussed for any continuation of most of the games on that list, though I'd definitely be keen for the following in some shape or form

Jet Set Radio
OutRun
Panzer Dragoon
Shinobi
Skies of Arcadia
Streets Of Rage
The House of the Dead
Toejam and Earl
Virtua Tennis

**Tobal** · 12-04-2022, 22:01

Think i'd be happy with some proper emulation work for game collections, give me a racing arcade collection of Sega Rally 1/2, Daytona 1/2, Scud racer and Initial D games with options for multiplayer.

As far as new games, i would like new Shining Force, a proper RPG Phantasy Star, Skies of Arcadia, Soleil and as said already, another go at the Burning Rangers formula.

Also think Sega have more than enough IP's to make Smash Bros like game, hopefully in style of Melee with its adventure mode than the current Smash.

**Cepp** · 12-04-2022, 22:04

I still hope for a current gen port of the Initial D arcade games. Just one SEGA, please!

I agree with [MENTION=3144]Dogg Thang[/MENTION] that Burning Rangers has massive untapped potential. Panzer Dragoon, Jet Set Radio and Skies of Arcadia would be great to see come back as well as Outrun.

I'm not really fussed about the rest. We still have the classics and Yakuza/Hatsune Miku are still current.

**tokyochojin** · 13-04-2022, 04:39

There are so many to be honest, but a new Jet Set Radio or even JSRF HD would be on my wishlist.
Also, a proper old school Phantasy Star RPG would be welcome too.

**dataDave** · 13-04-2022, 06:43

Originally posted by Colin View Post

Streets Of Rage

SoR4 is not only the best one by absolute miles, but it’s also one of the very best scrolling beat ‘em ups ever made. They outsourced it to folks who actually get what makes a great scrolling fighter. It’s more than worthy of being included in lists next to the likes of Final Fight and AvP.

Please tell me you’ve played it!

**dataDave** · 13-04-2022, 06:45

Apparently Sonic Mania 2 was in the works, but then Sega fell out with the devs.

Sega gonna Sega.

Sonic Mania 2 and SoR5 would be more than enough for my Sega fill. I don’t trust anyone with bringing any of that other stuff back, but then they did such a great job with Sonic and SoR that I’m open to being surprised.

**Asura** · 13-04-2022, 07:00

Sega are weird because out of all the publishers, they might resonate most strongly with the phrase "be careful what you wish for".

NiGHTs is a good example. I love it; was actually playing the PS3 version last night. One of my favourite games. But with the exception of maybe the pinball table in Sonic Adventure, I think everything in that brand which followed the original game was terrible, especially the Wii game.

Also gonna come out and say something here - I think Fighting Vipers is crap and should stay dead, or, if it comes back, it needs a complete rethink. I was thinking about this when playing the PS3 version last night. Back-in-the-day I had to choose between that and VF2 and I picked VF2, while always wondering if I'd made the right choice. I remember playing FV at an arcade at a service station somewhere in the 90s and really loving it. But playing it today, is it just me, or is it kinda terrible? I get what they were going for, something more snappy with more character, but in a world where we also have Dead or Alive and Bloody Roar which had similar gimmicks, I just don't feel it ever really had much going for it.

I bought the Panzer Dragoon remake on Switch and actually kinda regret it, as the platform has no refund policy. I actually found it visually "busy" and quite difficult to play as a result, and similarly, I bought the recent Monkey Ball HD version and there were really basic problems with it, like no pass-the-pad multiplayer for the main campaign and dreadful adaptations of the minigames.

Mainly I think there are many games there which are in licensing hell which I really wish would get a worldwide, consistent release that we'd expect to continue on future consoles. Sega did this recently with the adaptation of Virtua Fighter 5 to the Yakuza flavour of the Unreal engine, so it can easily be ported to future platforms.

Actually there's one one. **** it. I want Virtua Fighter 6.

Originally posted by dataDave View Post

SoR4 is not only the best one by absolute miles, but it’s also one of the very best scrolling beat ‘em ups ever made. They outsourced it to folks who actually get what makes a great scrolling fighter. It’s more than worthy of being included in lists next to the likes of Final Fight and AvP.

Please tell me you’ve played it!

At risk of this becoming another SoR4 debate thread, can people explain what they love about it? I got it on launch and honestly it didn't grab me; I think I played it for a couple of hours? I'm sure I haven't finished it. I rinse SoR2 often. Wasn't the visuals (personally not a huge fan of the style but I thought they were well-executed in terms of what they were going for) but I just remember finding some of the situations/enemies quite frustrating/not particularly fun. I should really fire it up again.

I got more play-time out of the indie game Fight'n'Rage, even if that was more of a daft homage.

**Neon Ignition** · 13-04-2022, 10:08

For Streets of Rage they just need to literally make Streets of Rage 5. I don't feel Golden Axe etc need to come back as they'd ultimately be the same but with a more dated look about them.

NiGHTS I'd definitely bring back but in a very streamlined form. The sequel lost its way by trying to expand the concept, all it needs is a score attack focused sequel that is like the original in focus. It doesn't need to try to be a AAA style action game.

JSR is one I'd only want if it followed Future's approach

Panzer Dragoon, sod the fans, it needed to be Panzer Dragoon Saga II. The original was amazing and moving to PS2 should have been a slam dunk, it might have three on-rail entries but that approach is a road to nowhere for the series.

Sonic should be gifted to Nintendo at this point, Sonic Team has no idea what it's doing with it

Burning Rangers, I'd take anything from a remake to a sequel

Crazy Taxi 4 should already be a thing, just a back to basics modern incarnation

I'd take a Headhunter 3 as well. Something much closer to the original which the Yakuza studio could likely make

And considering how well MS did with PGR, Sega has really been sleeping on reviving Metropolis Street Racer

**dataDave** · 13-04-2022, 12:36

Originally posted by Asura View Post

At risk of this becoming another SoR4 debate thread, can people explain what they love about it?

What I find that separates the mediocre (TMNT4, Sengoku 3) from the good (SoR2, Simpsons) to the great (Final Fight, Warriors of Fate, Cadillacs, The Punisher) all the way up to the best-in-class (SoR4, AvP... Even evolutions of the genre stretching to Bayonetta/TW101) is to what effect that these style of games have you assume the role of a digital sheepdog, and to further extent how you're rewarded for doing so. I find that there's nothing more satisfying than rounding up a group of bitches before throwing a bunch of dynamite into them in the form of your specials, and such. SoR4 is so meaty in this regard - the regular specials which consume health are nasty enough, but what really ****ing slams it home are the main/limited specials which consume a star. Destroying a bunch of dudes down to 0HP and then slapping a star special in there for good measure when they're airborne for the jugglez never gets boring. It's even better in multiplayer where you can stack all manner of specials with each other for massive scoring potential. Even my wife and kid have the system down now after just a couple of hours.

If this kind of performance is recognised in the form of points-scoring (and thus extra lives!) then all the better.

SoR4 and Bayonetta do this perfectly (AvP, too, although your performance is not really celebrated on the screen outside of the mass carnage). With SoR4 specifically, you've got to keep your scoring chain (combo) going across separate waves of enemies, and as there's no taunt in this game you have to either hit objects or collect either scoring or health items from the ground to keep the combo alive until the next wave of baddies are up. There's of course the risk/reward element as well. You can rack up a huge 400+ hit combo but if you take a hit it's cancelled and you get nothing, so you're always thinking about timing the combo out if it's warranted, for example, if that extra life is just a couple of thousand off. In another stroke of genius the game notifies you how far away you are from that extra life. You NEED to master this for the higher difficulties, because there are more enemies, thus more things to hit, thus higher scoring sustenance. They become harder to manage as well due to their increased speed and frequency in their attacks.

Then we have the surface-level things which are all absolutely great. Just the right amount of characters which all play so differently. I genuinely enjoy playing with any of them - I don’t have a favourite. There are lots of enemies, lots, each of them have their own traits which at first come across as annoying, but once you flawlessly work out your way around them it just adds to the satisfaction. The stages are beautiful and the audio as a whole is some of the best I’ve ever heard in a game. Sure, you can listen to the soundtrack on Spotify as most of the tracks are absolutely phenomenal, but it really works 100x better when you play the game to hear it - the way each track progressively evolves as you make your way through the level has been done in other games, but it’s just done so bloody well on this. The sound effects are all so bone-crunching and satisfying, and once it all kicks off it just sounds like pure mayhem all over the shop. The unlockables are fantastic - secret retro/pixelated characters from earlier games which control exactly as they do in those past titles, with all the enemies reacting to their hits in the exact same way, too. I love playing with SoR1 Adam due to this very reason. It’s such a nice novelty despite their blocky pixel form really not adhering to the modern aesthetic.

There are also Survival modes (if you have the DLC) which bring longevity to those who’ve mastered the main game. I’m far from mastering anything to be honest so I’ve not played around with it that much. I know a lot of folks over on RLLMUK who put a crazy amount of time and effort into it.

Originally posted by Asura View Post

I got it on launch and honestly it didn't grab me; I think I played it for a couple of hours? I'm sure I haven't finished it. I rinse SoR2 often. Wasn't the visuals (personally not a huge fan of the style but I thought they were well-executed in terms of what they were going for) but I just remember finding some of the situations/enemies quite frustrating/not particularly fun. I should really fire it up again.

They listened to the early user feedback and tweaked things aggressively shortly after, I believe. I remember not having fun also - I yarrr'd the PC version to demo it and bounced off of it immediately because I hate enemies with shields and no workarounds which are designed to spoil fun (Bayonetta 2 has this **** all over, too) but thankfully they nerfed those police plasma-shield guys specifically, as well as carrying out a load of other stuff. We got the Switch GOTY version before Christmas and it's a whole different game now.

**Dogg Thang** · 13-04-2022, 12:51

Originally posted by Asura View Post

At risk of this becoming another SoR4 debate thread, can people explain what they love about it?

Why though? Does anyone really want to know this when they ask this? If it doesn’t grab you, it doesn’t grab you. I can’t imagine anyone could talk you into liking it. It’s okay not to like things even when others do.

**dataDave** · 13-04-2022, 12:54

If I had my way I'd have the very same team resurrect Golden Axe, at gunpoint if necessary. They could easily pull it off.

I'd love to hear Olivier Deriviere's punt on a mythical 80s synth OST. Listen to the second part of this then try telling me that you disagree:

Actually, just listen to all of it.

**dataDave** · 13-04-2022, 13:01

Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post

Why though?

Because he played it for two hours, at launch.

The team listened to all of the feedback that was worth a damn and It's been aggressively tweaked since then. It more than deserves another try seeing as, in my opinion at least, they've transformed it into not only one of the best games of the century thus far but also the very best Streets of Rage by an unfathomable distance.

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