PlayStation 5: Thread 05

[wakka]

Well remembered, but yeah I mainly game on my projector, which isn't even 4K (yet somehow I survive...).
I still don't own anything that can play or show something in 4K!

If the PS5 Pro does happen, I'll definitely be looking at my options for Pro, Standard new and 2nd-hand.

I'm in an even lower res, I spend all my time playing retro!

I honestly would rather have a Retrotink4K than a PS5 Pro which makes me feel like a dork.

[CMcK]

I honestly would rather have a Retrotink4K than a PS5 Pro which makes me feel like a dork.

I shall join you in the dork camp. I think I would get more use from the Tink4K than a PS5Pro.

[Lebowski]

I shall join you in the dork camp. I think I would get more use from the Twink4K than a PS5Pro.

A 4k Twink!!! This is borders down not Pornhub my good SIR

[randombs]

There's definitely a market for people who are happy to pay more for better graphics/RT but don't necessarily want an actual gaming PC.

Console prices aren't affected by things like crypto mining that drove up the prices of graphics cards.

And despite Steam's wonderful efforts to make PC gaming even more console-like, PCs still suffer from typical PC issues.

[wakka]

Yeah, I agree, I think there is a market. The overall cost is still considerably lower than buying a PC, especially a pre-built, too. And the convenience of the undertaking is a lot higher.

Personally I see real enthusiasts as only part of the market for a Pro machine. With them, the fight is on between the Pro and PCs (although more deep pocketed and committed players may choose to have both).

I think a bigger part of the market for it is the casual or semi-casual 35 to 44 bracket - the largest age demographic of gamers worldwide now - who, in the same way they might choose the 'pro' model when buying a new phone, might be quite happy to spend the extra couple of hundred quid to have the luxe console.

[Neon Ignition]

It might vary depending on set up, obviously if someone is on a lower end system especially, but I haven't had to spend any meaningful time in settings on PC for a very long time. Even when a game ships with people melting down about issues, those issues are often blown up in proportion based on a higher expectation. Those days seem to be comfortably behind us, likely also part of why devices like the Deck are now so viable. The trade off likely mostly rests on how much of a multiformat gamer someone is (well, till MS removes themselves fully from that calculation). Pure PS gamers won't get the mileage out of a PC due to the trade offs, the scale tips fast when other formats are part of the buying routine.

Approx. £1220 for one of each of the main three consoles Not counting upgrading in the next four years or any other costs. I'll dice roll that PS5 Pro doesn't crack 10m units sold, I feel I'm being generous with that figure too. It'll explode out the gate and then like so many Sony devices, they'll go deathly silent on it within a year. Strategy being borked though it is, if MS goes 2026 for next-gen too that'll really destabilise the hardware cycle

[MartyG]

The point was, and still is, that once you're getting over £650 you're leaving the casual console market and touching on PC territory (no where did I say you can buy a PC for current PS5 money); if your reason for wanting a Pro is better fidelity, then that might be better served in that market - I'd not disagree that there are people that want the convenience of a console, but once it's over a certain threshold, you're looking at a different demographic. We don't know what the price point will be yet, but we do know where 30 TF of performance sits in the PC stack, which is why I'm erring towards that higher price point.

Also, people don't tend to buy phones outright, they're bought on contract over two or three years, so people never really look at or think about the actual cost of ownership, which is hidden away in a monthly tariff - they're marketed in a very different way.

I think people expecting Lamborghini Huracán performance for Ford Fiesta money are going to be disappointed.

[Lebowski]

A Lamborghini Huracán costs starts at £206,000 a Ford Fiesta costs starts at £16,000, I'd buy a PS5 pro over a PC if the difference was something costing you 12.875 times

To get nearer comparisons you should have said its like buying a Ferrari F430 (£120,000) and expecting a Lamborghini Huracán (£206,000), but then that isn't as dramatic a comparison.

[MartyG]

You're not reading what I posted properly: People expecting the PS5 Pro to have Lamborghini Huracán performance (33TF) for Ford Fiesta money (£450) are going to be disappointed. i.e., PS5 Pro is going to be expensive.

[wakka]

The point was, and still is, that once you're getting over £650 you're leaving the casual console market and touching on PC territory (no where did I say you can buy a PC for current PS5 money); if your reason for wanting a Pro is better fidelity, then that might be better served in that market - I'd not disagree that there are people that want the convenience of a console, but once it's over a certain threshold, you're looking at a different demographic. We don't know what the price point will be yet, but we do know where 30 TF of performance sits in the PC stack, which is why I'm erring towards that higher price point.

Also, people don't tend to buy phones outright, they're bought on contract over two or three years, so people never really look at or think about the actual cost of ownership, which is hidden away in a monthly tariff - they're marketed in a very different way.

I think people expecting Lamborghini Huracán performance for Ford Fiesta money are going to be disappointed.

I wonder about the bolded part. By different demographic, I take it you mean a dedicated enthusiast - someone who's informed about what they're buying and happy to spend a good amount on hardware.

No doubt there's a price threshold beyond which you can market only to that group. But I wonder if ~£650 is really where it lies.

The smartphone example probably isn't a good one because of how they're marketed on contracts, as you point out, and I'd add also because of how vital smartphones are and therefore the increased amount people are probably willing to spend on them relative to other products they buy. Games consoles obviously aren't vital.

A better comparison might be something like smartwatches, tablets, or headphones. Premium devices in these categories do quite well, and I don't think you need to be a dedicated enthusiast of any of them to spend more than you really need to in order to secure a nicer version.

I think the PS5 Pro makes sense as a product in that context - again, especially considering that I see this as something positioned for the crucial 35-44 demographic, who are generally better capitalised than younger people and more likely to be less price sensitive.

[Lebowski]

You're not reading what I posted properly: People expecting the PS5 Pro to have Lamborghini Huracán performance (33TF) for Ford Fiesta money (£450) are going to be disappointed. i.e., PS5 Pro is going to be expensive.

Place your bets now please

PS5 Pro £650 PS5 Amateur £450

[MartyG]

I think you're getting into enthusiast territory at that price point yes, looking historically at the pricing of consoles - and I would liken it the headphone market - you see people start to baulk when headphones get over £100 - that's pretty cheap for enthusiast level headphones. I know people that think the iPhone wired headphones sound great and definitely don't understand why anyone would want to a pair of AKG 812 (although I think my BeyerDynamic DT 880s sound better).

The PS5 is definitely better than the old stuffed in boxed iPhone buds, so unless people are unhappy with what they're already getting with their current console, I think price is critical if the plan is to sell 14 million of them as Sony did with PS4 Pro. Otherwise, yes, you're in the enthusiast market.

I think a much better comparison is actually the PC GFX card market and looking at what sells best there - it's not the enthusiast level cards.

[wakka]

i would say this is aimed at a “mass market plus” category, rather than enthusiast. Enthusiasts are already well served by PCs as you point out.

I think plenty of headphones costing well over £100 are mass market, and there’s a sizeable part of the market willing to pay much more. I wouldn’t at all think of AirPods Pro or Bose headphones as enthusiast products.

[fishbowlhead]

You're not reading what I posted properly: People expecting the PS5 Pro to have Lamborghini Huracán performance (33TF) for Ford Fiesta money (£450) are going to be disappointed. i.e., PS5 Pro is going to be expensive.

Their not though, who’s expecting that?

[MartyG]

I can only really speak for myself, and I'd definitely put myself in the "enthusiast " category - but if it's £650+ it's not going to be something I run out to buy when the PS5 is already a perfectly decent console, even if it can't manage 4K60.

On the otherhand, if it's sub £650 and it's kicking the ass of the RTX 4070 in performance, then that would be a different prospect, so ultimately it's going to come down to price/performance.