can anyone advise me about HDtvs with regard to the next-gen consoles?

[petre]

ok, i'll be buying an xbox 360 later this year and am a bit confused as to whether or not i should buy a new tv. i'm just going to list my thoughts/concerns:

1. at the moment i'm using a widescreen 28" CRT flatscreen model, which i've got pretty much no complaints about.
2. i sit about 15ft away from it when gaming, and i've no problem with the resolution, although i admit when i get much closer something like PGR 2 suffers.
3. space is no problem- i'd happily buy another CRT model for my HDTV if i could find them as cheap as i've seen them on us websites (something like $400 for a 28"!!!)
4. i'd be willing to go up to around ?800-1000 for a new tv.

i'm just wondering what the current state of play is in the uk market. obviously i've had a look around and i've seen decent-looking LCD 26" models for around ?550-600, but it's difficult to get any perspective on it: when, for example, will i be able to buy something like this here: http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KV_30HS...?tag=pdtl-list

(sorry, i don't know how to provide a link on here)

i also want to know- is it really worth it? are they that much better?

[wod]

you'll also need to make sure you get one with good set of inputs including HDMI socket, component, vga or dvi (that accepts hdcp)

you'll get some good info from the reviews and people on this forum

http://www.avforums.com/

[andrewfee]

If you're willing to go to about ?1000, then I say you should go with at least a 32" TV. Viewing distance should ideally be between 3x and 5x the diagonal size of the screen. At 15ft, you're even further, but you won't get bigger at that price, unles you're willing to sacrifice quality.

Just a word of warning, before I even recommend this, Lyris will come in here and act like it's the worst television ever, because he was unlucky and recieved a faulty one, and has been spreading it around like it's every set that is affected, when in reality it is far from it. It seems to be a very small bad first batch. Basically some people are reporing S-Video looks better than RGB SCART, and that they see tearing in 720p/60, but it seems that a lot of people are mistaking the Xbox tearing itself for this fault (hell, it even does it in 480i on any television, let alone 720p) I have only seen about three or four people that actually have the problem, and a lot of people panicking, thinking they have it when they don't. Please don't let this put you off, I know four other people that personally have this television, and not one of us has had a problem.

I would highly recommend the Samsung LE32R41B, or one of its variants.
There's quite a few different models, but they're all just about the same. There's 41/51 which is just the front bezel design - in my opinion the 41 looks better.

41 has less black:

51 has more, which I preferred in pics, but didn't like when I saw it in person:



There's also different endings to the code, but all it means is:
B(X) = Standard with analogue tuner
BD(X) = Freeview digital tuner and analogue tuner, with CAM slot on the back for TopUp.TV

The non-freeview can be had around the ?800 mark, and the Freeview one for ?950-1200, depending on where you shop. Personally I went with the non-freeview, as it was ?1100 to have it when I got mine, and I picked up a Sony freeview box, which is quite a bit superior to the internal tuner anyway, as long as you don't want TopUp.tv


This television is 1366x768 native, which means it does 720p with very little scaling. There are some sets that can do 1280x720, but they're awkward to get set up with a PC and do not actually map 720p 1:1, as they still use overscan. Most new LCDs coming out use this resolution.

Contrast is 800:1, and while it doesn't produce black blacks (no LCD/Plasma/RPTV can) they are almost the same as a CRT in good light. There is a "dynamic contrast" technology which boosts it to 3000:1, but only does this by getting rid of shadow/highlight detail. (note, I believe plasmas are measured differently, which is why their contrast numbers are much higher on paper)

If you want to watch in a completely dark room, CRT is still the only technology for you. If you either watch with a light on, or in the daytime then LCD is perfect. As you don't have glass over the front of the panel, you don't get reflections, and (to a point) having light on the screen can actually be a good thing. I have a spotlight pointing almost directly at mine, and it significantly helps black levels. As this set uses 10-bit processing, you do not lose detail in the dark areas, it's just not black.

Brightness is 500cd/m2 which is fantastic, and bright enough to use in the daytime on a bright day.

12ms response time which makes it perfect for gaming. (Note: you will see some "blur" when using interlaced sources, but that's due to the nature of interlacing, and is removed in 480p upwards)

It has:
1x HDMI (can use DVI with an adapter)
1x VGA "PC" input (best quality VGA I've ever seen, and can do 1:1 mapping @ 1360x768, or 1024x768 in 4:3)
1x Component
1x RGB SCART
1x S-Video
1x Composite SCART
1x Composite


The US version of this is actually going to be promoted by Microsoft as being the best television to use with X360. I wish I had a camera to take working pics, but here's a few that I have found from other people with this television. (note: any vertical banding is caused by the camera)







This LCD may be cheap, but it is not compromising on quality. I have a few friends with this set, and also know some people that have paid over twice the price for a 32" LCD, and none of them compare to the Samsung, in my eyes or theirs.

Edit: the 26" model is about ?600, and the 23" is ?500-ish. However, while the 26" will be almost the same as your previous television, (CRT does not give you the full size) I would recommend going bigger. It's always nice to see a size increase as well as quality / resolution.

Just one more thing to note, any HD display will show up the flaws in your source.

[Leon Retro]

Looks great- I am really warming to the possibility of buying an LCD tv. Will Samsung be bringing out a model larger than 32"??

Do you get the problem where you have to look at it straight on and any head movement makes things look darker or lighter???

[andrewfee]

Looks great- I am really warming to the possibility of buying an LCD tv. Will Samsung be bringing out a model larger than 32"??

Do you get the problem where you have to look at it straight on and any head movement makes things look darker or lighter???

They do a 40" model as well, I think it's about ?1600 and is identical, bar the size. This is about the price most 32" LCDs are! I don't think you can get any bigger than that though.

It's got a 170? viewing angle, but I find that you'll see very subtle changes if you move about 45? left or right of centre, so about 90? viewing angle before anything starts to change. It's not an extreme change, and you probably won't notice it unless you're looking for it. When you get to about twice that, it's then noticeable even if you're not looking for it.

I saw this on ever LCD they had down in Currys when I went down to demo it, most of which have a stated 170? h/v viewing angle. Also saw it on LCD monitors I've owned in the past.

If you're just sitting in one place and moving your head you won't see a change though. Hope it helps.

[Spatial]

Gargh... must resist.... trading in Plasma..... !!!

[Leon Retro]

40" sounds good- and by xmas it could be more affordable.

I have an LCD monitor- and it's perfect when I look straight on with my room lit. The only games that have ever looked slightly dodgy are very dark ones- such as Doom3. LCD's really do work better in well lit rooms- but even in darkness most games look great!

Thanks for all the info- it's got me thinking!

[andrewfee]

40" sounds good- and by xmas it could be more affordable.

I have an LCD monitor- and it's perfect when I look straight on with my room lit. The only games that have ever looked slightly dodgy are very dark ones- such as Doom3. LCD's really do work better in well lit rooms- but even in darkness most games look great!

Thanks for all the info- it's got me thinking!

No problems. I've actually completed the Doom 3 demo and HL2 demos on my old PC hooked up to it, had no problems in Doom whatsoever. This was actually in a dark room, testing it to the extreme. (as the backlight is set to max over VGA) Looks amazing when there's a light on / daylight though.

[Freddo]

whatever you get make sure it'll do 720p@50hz and 1080i@50hz, otherwise it'll be useless for skyHD.

maybe its time we had a HD sticky, we seem to be getting lots of these threads now.

[andrewfee]

whatever you get make sure it'll do 720p@50hz and 1080i@50hz, otherwise it'll be useless for skyHD.

maybe its time we had a HD sticky, we seem to be getting lots of these threads now.

To get the HD Ready logo, I believe it has to support 720p/50. This set will do 50Hz on everything though, but the VGA, or "PC" port as they call it, will only take 60Hz as PCs don't (can't?) output 50.

If you have a media centre pc, you can use a DVI > HDMI cable if you're playing back a lot of PAL content from it. There is some overscan, but someone mentioned sending it 1360x768 (native) over HDMI and got it perfect with the underscanning options in the nVidia control panel.

It's a shame, ATi has better IQ, and is better for gaming, but nVidia are the only ones that seem to be paying attention to the HDTV market with their software. (well, as far as I know - I don't actually have a PC for myself now, I use a Mac)

[petre]

cheers for all the help fellas!

there's a lot to take in, i have to say. i'd no idea that there was a technical problem with LCDs portraying blacks, or that they suffer with the lights off. the latter, particularly, would be a problem for me- not so much for games, but for watching movies i tend to have the lights off (doesn't everyone?).

it sounds to me that a CRT is the way to go. i've no problems with space so this is my preference right now. so anyone know when that sort of tv i posted a link to will become available in the uk, and for what kind of price?

thanks again.

[Ginger Tosser]

I'm wondering if anyone will bother with a CRT HDTV when the market in the UK is pushing plasma+LCD. I'd stick with your current TV at the moment as it'll probably take a while for HDTV to make a difference in the UK. Widescreens been here for a while now and major broadcasts are still 4:3.

[andrewfee]

I don't think there are any CRT HDTVs over here, and if there are, they're very scarce. I doubt we'll see many at all to be honest, all the manufacturers are pushing LCD/Plasma now.

It depends how much you game really, I just use Freeview for TV, and it's good enough, I suppose. (higher bitrate than Sky on some channels, but I wish it would run in progressive) I don't really watch much, most of my time is spent gaming, which is why I bought a TV like this.

[ThoseOfTheUnlight]

Got a 32" Samsung HD LCD (the 51B one, as I prefer it to the look of the 41B, in a strange odd way about compared to andrewfee) coming tomorrow or Thursday.

Will report back with my results!

[Crisp_Rapper]

crt hdtv is possible but is reported to be more costly... i'd love a 'flat' hd crt though, not a huge fan of plasma or lcd thus far.