can anyone advise me about HDtvs with regard to the next-gen consoles?

[dj898]

when you get the chance to grab one of these babies would you really care?

http://members.optushome.com.au/currypuff1/photos/HT-setup_1.jpg

seriously I'm planning to get bigger PDP in next three years and retire this one for exclusive game display... pending missus don't want this hang on the bedroom wall....

[krispyk]

Most manufacturers in this country seem to be seriously dropping CRTS from their product line up now in favour of LCD and Plasma as the price has dropped.

About 3 years ago I bought a 28 inch Panasonic CRT that had 2! RGB scarts and Dolby Digital/DTS sound processing. I got this at a discount and even then it cost me ?1150!

Fast forward to today and you can the highly praised Hitachi 32LD7200 LCD TV for similar money and that has 2 RGB scarts, a component input, DVI, HDMI and a VGA port.
Its amazing how quickly things have changed.

The 26 inch Sammy has received rave reviews over at AVforums and can be bought for about ?600.

I am going to give it a couple of months and then probably get an LCD as hopefully by then Sony, Sharps and Philips new offerings will be out by then.

[petre]

right, so it seems my only option is an LCD. the funny thing is, i only just realised i actually have a good frame of reference right in front of me: my 19" sony LCD monitor! this is the same technology, right?

i mean, i'm seriously no expert, but i've never noticed anything wrong with the blacks on this screen, and i've played through doom 3 with the lights off on it, never having a problem. haf-life 2 looked fine as well. i'm not looking for perfection- as long as i can't notice the problem i'm happy to put up with it, so the same should be true if i went for an LCD tv, right?

i mean, just how perceptible are these problems?

[andrewfee]

right, so it seems my only option is an LCD. the funny thing is, i only just realised i actually have a good frame of reference right in front of me: my 19" sony LCD monitor! this is the same technology, right?

i mean, i'm seriously no expert, but i've never noticed anything wrong with the blacks on this screen, and i've played through doom 3 with the lights off on it, never having a problem. haf-life 2 looked fine as well. i'm not looking for perfection- as long as i can't notice the problem i'm happy to put up with it, so the same should be true if i went for an LCD tv, right?

i mean, just how perceptible are these problems?

I personally don't have a problem with black levels at all, but it's likely a brigher display (500cd/m2) and the backlight has to be set to max on the PC input, which will brighten up the blacks a bit in a dark room. Also due to it being bigger also makes it more noticeable, as it'll brighten up your room more.

However, as I said I've played through the Doom 3 demo via a PC hooked up to it no problem, and it looked amazing in my opinion.

[petre]

cheers again. i'll play doom 3 tonight and report on it again tomorrow, but i didn't notice any problems last time.

by the way, i'm right in thinking that the problem is the blacks look too bright, or grey-ish, aren't i? because i tend to have the brightness setting on my tv quite low so as to have quite a dark look to the picture, and i'd certainly hate a more washed-out look.

[mr_sockochris]

The common problem with blacks on LCD screens is that they appear as one solid colour. A CRT will show all the hundreds (thousands?) of different shades of black, while on an LCD it tends to be less of a smooth transistion because of its inability to show REALLY dark blacks.

[andrewfee]

Turn the backlight on your LCD monitor to its max setting and you'll probably get an idea of how it'll look. (backlight, not brightness! lower brightness as low as it'll go before you actually start losing detail)

Blacks aren't black in a dark room, but I wouldn't say it looks "washed out" at all.

Edit:

The common problem with blacks on LCD screens is that they appear as one solid colour. A CRT will show all the hundreds (thousands?) of different shades of black, while on an LCD it tends to be less of a smooth transistion because of its inability to show REALLY dark blacks.

This is not the case with this television. Blacks are not black in a dark room, they are if you get the lighting right, but you do not loose shadow detail because of it, the only detail lost is if it's from the source. That's why 10-bit processing is a very important feature of this display.

[mr_sockochris]

Turn the backlight on your LCD monitor to its max setting and you'll probably get an idea of how it'll look. (backlight, not brightness! lower brightness as low as it'll go before you actually start losing detail)

Blacks aren't black in a dark room, but I wouldn't say it looks "washed out" at all.

Edit: This is not the case with this television. Blacks are not black in a dark room, they are if you get the lighting right, but you do not loose shadow detail because of it, the only detail lost is if it's from the source. That's why 10-bit processing is a very important feature of this display.

Yeah, the Samsung LCD is a quality set. I recently had to decide between the a Samsung 40" LCD and a Samsung "46 DLP. I saw them both running HD in Curry's and they both looked superb. For me the DLP looked closer to CRT quality so that's what I went with, plus it was a bit cheaper and a bit bigger

[Spatial]

So is the 40" version of the Samsung identical except for the size? I've not seen anyone singing its praises yet like the 32" version (I'm assuming thats because its a wee bit more expensive and most people have gone for the 32" option)

[krispyk]

So is the 40" version of the Samsung identical except for the size? I've not seen anyone singing its praises yet like the 32" version (I'm assuming thats because its a wee bit more expensive and most people have gone for the 32" option)

I dont think the 40" is a popular model from what I have seen at the moment.

At that size I think in terms of picture quality you are probably better off getting a Plasma but that isnt going to be ideal for Gaming.

I go to alot of Hi-fI shows and have found that Large LCDs really benefit from being fed a true Hi Def signal and they can really shine then!

At the moment most people seem to be waiting for the elusive 1080p screens that can show all the pixels available in from a Hi Def signal.

However from what I am aware of their arent any TV's available that can actually accept a 1080p signal ( if i am wrong please correct me ).

I think the best bet is to get a reasonably priced 26 " or 32 " LCD now if you really want to.

However if you can hold out I know Philips, Sony and JVC are all releasing screens that can display 1920 x 1080 pixels this year.

With the way prices have plummeted recently I am betting that next year at least one manufacturer will have a sensibly priced 37 inch 1080p on sale!

[Spatial]

Ah, I see the 40" set is almost the same except for having no VGA input connection.

As for 1080p, I've read views from quite a few people in various places who say that there's very little difference in practice between 720p and 1080p, and that 720p is a lot better and gives a more natural, fluid looking picture when in motion. Anyone here got any opinions on this?

[krispyk]

Ah, I see the 40" set is almost the same except for having no VGA input connection.

As for 1080p, I've read views from quite a few people in various places who say that there's very little difference in practice between 720p and 1080p, and that 720p is a lot better and gives a more natural, fluid looking picture when in motion. Anyone here got any opinions on this?

Theres probably very few people that have actually ever seen a true 1080p image that work outside of the film production and broadcast industry.

I have been to the states a few times and in a store I went into saw a Toshiba 1080p Lcos telly ( I think its discontinued now ) taking a 1080i feed from a D-VHS player.
Breathtaking doesnt describe it, I nearly began to cry!

I dont own any Hi Def sources and have a few HD clips on PC but these are quite compressed.

I havent had my X-Box modded so I cant comment on what 720p games look like.

All I can say with a fair degree of certainty is that when the next gen of consoles and HDTV arrive when we finally get to see 720p, 1080i or 1080p we are all in for a real treat!!!!

[andrewfee]

Yeah, the Samsung LCD is a quality set. I recently had to decide between the a Samsung 40" LCD and a Samsung "46 DLP. I saw them both running HD in Curry's and they both looked superb. For me the DLP looked closer to CRT quality so that's what I went with, plus it was a bit cheaper and a bit bigger

As with everything, it's debatable. While DLPs do look nice, I found them to be rather "noisy" in dark areas of the screen, and they did seem to have some posterization on the ones I saw. The biggest issue is the "rainbows" you get with them. Basically a CRT flickers all the odd/even lines 50/60 times a second which is why you can see it, but DLP flashes the R/G/B seperately, so if you can see it (which I can) it's the worst display type ever, in my opinion. Fast-moving objects, especially those with high contrast seem to break up into their seperate colours. If you've ever looked at a scanner with its lid open as it's working, it's just like that.

However, many people can't see it, and if you can't, you're very lucky I guess, as you can buy a great display at a nice low price.

Also not a fan of the way rear-projection sets work, but that's just personal preference really, not a big deal.

At the moment most people seem to be waiting for the elusive 1080p screens that can show all the pixels available in from a Hi Def signal.

However from what I am aware of their arent any TV's available that can actually accept a 1080p signal ( if i am wrong please correct me ).

I think the best bet is to get a reasonably priced 26 " or 32 " LCD now if you really want to.

However if you can hold out I know Philips, Sony and JVC are all releasing screens that can display 1920 x 1080 pixels this year.

With the way prices have plummeted recently I am betting that next year at least one manufacturer will have a sensibly priced 37 inch 1080p on sale!

There are some displays that do 1080p but they're stupidly expensive. It really depends what you're buying the TV for. The thing is, if you're getting it for gaming, I'd say a 720p display is a better idea, so that most of the content going into it is in its native resolution, wheras if you go 1080p you'll have almost everything you put into the television scaled up.

I was also speaking to a developer friend, asking if Sony might make 1080p a forced resolution, as most of the pics that come out have been at that res so far, but he was telling me there was no way they'd be that stupid because it'd be hard for the developers, and 1080p is limited to 30fps due to bandwidth constraints. He didn't say if it was PS3 bandwidth he was talking about, but it actually wouldn't surprise me if this was a limitation in the DVI/HDMI interface itself.

Ah, I see the 40" set is almost the same except for having no VGA input connection.

As for 1080p, I've read views from quite a few people in various places who say that there's very little difference in practice between 720p and 1080p, and that 720p is a lot better and gives a more natural, fluid looking picture when in motion. Anyone here got any opinions on this?

You sure it's got no VGA? I'm
pretty certain I've seen a lot of people with the set discussing it on some AV forums.

And at normal viewing distances you're right, it is very hard to distinguish 720p from 1080p. It's only once you get closer that it's really noticeable.
There is a limit to what the eye can actually see, and for most people even 720p can go past it, depending on viewing distances.

[krispyk]

I would have thought that Sony must have plans to release a display capable of displaying a 1080p signal via HDMI bearing in mind the specs that they have released for the PS3.

As far as I am aware there is only one consumer display on the marker that can take a 1080p and thats Mitsubishi's top of the range DLP rear projection telly in the states and even then it can only take the signal via its VGA socket.

The best bet at the moment seems to be the Sammy as the ideal gamers purchase.

[andrewfee]

I would have thought that Sony must have plans to release a display capable of displaying a 1080p signal via HDMI bearing in mind the specs that they have released for the PS3.

As far as I am aware there is only one consumer display on the marker that can take a 1080p and thats Mitsubishi's top of the range DLP rear projection telly in the states and even then it can only take the signal via its VGA socket.

The best bet at the moment seems to be the Sammy as the ideal gamers purchase.

Sony's new LCD series is 720p, they US models are up on their website. It's only the really high-end sets that are 1080p yet, and it'll probably stay that way for quite some time.