LCD/Plasma/CRT/DLP - questions

[AllYourBase]

I've just Sold my old faithful Samsung and I want a 32incher for less than ?700, I'm currently looking at the Toshiba 32WLT66.

Any ideas or alternatives?

I have the Toshiba 32WLT66 and can vouch for it. Picture quality is as good as most LCDs I have seen. As Rlench says the VGA isn't it's strongest feature, I hooked up a 360 via VGA and whilst the picture was good it wasn't as vibrant as found when using component which is truly outstanding on this set.

This tv also has 2 HDMI ports which may be useful in the post-PS3 days, getting a decent component switch box is cheap but HDMI switchers cost a fair whack!

The freeview built in is good also, very fast when moving channels. All in all for the price you can't go wrong with this set. See if you can get a cheeky pricematch at John Lewis and pick up a 5 year warrenty with it.

[EvilBoris]

I'm still not sure

It sounds great, but as I've used the VGA on the samsung (which was such a cripsy picture) anything else seems like it may be a step back.

I'm mulling over it still

and the Sony KDL32S2010 (Only 1 HDMI) and the Samsung LE32N73BDX (May be too similar to my old set?)

I might have a stroll into Dixons in my lunch and pretend I'm going to buy one/get them to match their website

[andrewfee]

My LC37GE1E arrived a couple of days ago now, and it's easily the worst display I've had so far. The set itself is beautiful, and build quality is superb, but the picture is awful.

It's got some really bad posterization and gamma problems, a poor response time, forced noise reduction on RGB (smears the image) a couple of reasonably loud fans, and the image has cut out on me four times so far.

Colour reproduction is really nice though, and when it does work, it looks superb:



Corruption:


Does not like 1280x720 from the 360 over VGA:


Posterization and Gamma problems:

Face on the right is made up of maybe 3/4 colours, gamma causes things like hair to have sudden dark patches with no transition.

Posterization in F.E.A.R. demo:


Response time issues:

(click for video)

Unfortunately my camera doesn't give me exposure options for taking video, so it makes things less noticeable, but there is, in my opinion, significant ghosting and smearing on this set. In the second video, there are inch-long green/yellow and black trails from those boxes.


From what I've seen so far, the XD1 LCDs at least have the same gamma issues, and possibly posterization too.

Avoid Sharp.

What annoys me most is that I love the design of this set - it's perfect, in my opinion. I just wish someone could put a decent TV inside it.

[sj33]

I have the Toshiba 32WLT66 and can vouch for it. Picture quality is as good as most LCDs I have seen. As Rlench says the VGA isn't it's strongest feature, I hooked up a 360 via VGA and whilst the picture was good it wasn't as vibrant as found when using component which is truly outstanding on this set.

This tv also has 2 HDMI ports which may be useful in the post-PS3 days, getting a decent component switch box is cheap but HDMI switchers cost a fair whack!

The freeview built in is good also, very fast when moving channels. All in all for the price you can't go wrong with this set. See if you can get a cheeky pricematch at John Lewis and pick up a 5 year warrenty with it.

Does it do 1360x768 over HDMI from a PC?

Right now I'm either getting the Tosh 32WLT66 or the Sony 32S2019.

[Kotatsu Neko]

Andrew - is that the new 1080p SHARP? If so, it's pretty disappointing to see it has such issues.

[andrewfee]

Andrew - is that the new 1080p SHARP? If so, it's pretty disappointing to see it has such issues.

It's one of the new ones, yeah. There's the XD1 and GE1 range - the GE1 is the "premium" 1080p set, and costs about ?300 more than the 37" XD1 does.

It looks amazing as a monitor, but that's about it really.

[Angry the Clown]

Funny as the GE1 aesthetically I find to be the better looking set between it and the XD1 models. Personally I am still torn between the Sony SXRD rear projection set or their 46inch W series LCD (I've found the X series to be somewhat better, but I don't want to pay over ?2000 for LCD technology).

[andrewfee]

Funny as the GE1 aesthetically I find to be the better looking set between it and the XD1 models. Personally I am still torn between the Sony SXRD rear projection set or their 46inch W series LCD (I've found the X series to be somewhat better, but I don't want to pay over ?2000 for LCD technology).

If you have the space, the SXRD is meant to be one of the best sets out there. I'm not a big fan of the WCG-CCFL colours (all BRAVIA LCDs other than S/U) but I'd imagine the SXRD is better.

[Angry the Clown]

Oh it is leagues better. The SXRD really has it all. 1080p, dual HDMI, two component inputs, superb contrast ratio, no burn in, lower power consumption, highly tweakable menu functions....etc. Calibrated SXRD displays really are superb. It's just a question of practicality for me.

I could live with the shortcomings of the Bravia LCD I think, but it's frustrating the 46inch W and the 55inch SXRD can be had for roughly the same price when there's so much between them in quality. There's no question which is the better display, it's just again it comes down to whether an rptv is practical for me or not. Amusingly enough it's not as deep as my 32inch WEGA CRT is, but we?re talking 55inches here and the practical concern is more one of viewing from an optimal seating distance for SD and HD viewing above anything else (that and buying a new lamp every 7000 hours or so).

My journey to buy a new TV has taken so long (been searching for well over 18months now) that I may just reward myself and go nuts anyway by getting the SXRD.

[andrewfee]

My journey to buy a new TV has taken so long (been searching for well over 18months now) that I may just reward myself and go nuts anyway by getting the SXRD.

Sounds just like me - it's got to be close to 18 months since I bought that Samsung LE32R41BX. 7000 hours isn't too bad for the bulb - that's a good 2/3 years, but rear-projection is a bit off-putting compared to direct-view. (not as bright and worse viewing angles)

Unfortunately for me, I just don't have the room for a rear-projection set, and I'd want to do a lot of daytime viewing.

I'm fairly happy with LCD panels at the moment (assuming the larger Sonys are as good as the 32v2000 I had) but I'm not happy with what manufacturers are doing with them. Stuff like WCG-CCFL is terrible in my opinion, and most, if not all, manufacturers are forcing terrible image processing on us now.

I miss the days of having CRTs where all you did was make sure you were using an RGB lead, set the brightness/contrast, and you were done, as using RGB bypassed everything in the set, so you didn't even get colour/sharpness controls, it was just perfect. Even CRTs these days don't do that though, and look almost as bad as everything else.

My problem now is that I have no TV, other than a 14" portable CRT, which is killing my eyes (and my neck, as I have to look down at it) and I really wanted to have something by the time Gears was out. I was willing to overlook a lot with the Sharp, but even being lenient on it, it's just too bad to keep, especially for ?1400.

[Angry the Clown]

The viewing angles on the SXRD actually surprised me. The sets are often set up so badly in store that it's really one of the only elements one is left to be able to judge fairly in a shop and they're well above average on these for an RPTV I must say. One fairly evident niggle with them is the silk screen effect, though it does seem when set up properly it becomes less of a problem unless you really start looking for it. The wealth of menu options available to the user on the SXRDs though is overwhelming (turns out they also accept a 48hz signal over HDMI).

My max budget is really going to be ?2000 I think so my shortlist is the 55inch SXRD, the 46inch W Series Bravia LCD, or a Panasonic HD9 Plasma panel. It?s a shame the Sharp XD1s appear to have more problems than I could tolerate as it would have been nice to see Sharp top of the LCD game again.

I really must make a decision within the next few months as having no HDTV has put me off buying things like the 360 and the console is really at the point where I am rather eager to own one now.

[sj33]

Got new screen!!!

Sony Bravia 32" KDL-32S2030 - I assume a newer revision of the 32S2010?
Anyway, spiffy screen. Only 1 HDMI, but PC connected over VGA in 1360x768 is dreamy. Gonna hook up the Dreamcast later to see how it handles 640x480.

I did think 1X HDMI would be a pain, but I'll likely retire my Oppo when I finally get a PS3 anyway.

Now... what's the best way to calibrate this screen? The default settings really suck.

[andrewfee]

Got new screen!!!

Sony Bravia 32" KDL-32S2030 - I assume a newer revision of the 32S2010?
Anyway, spiffy screen. Only 1 HDMI, but PC connected over VGA in 1360x768 is dreamy. Gonna hook up the Dreamcast later to see how it handles 640x480.

I did think 1X HDMI would be a pain, but I'll likely retire my Oppo when I finally get a PS3 anyway.

Now... what's the best way to calibrate this screen? The default settings really suck.

It's exactly the same as the other S models, only in black. I wish I had just bought the 40s2030 instead of this damn Sharp. By the time I get it refunded, Gears will probably be out. I've got the money to just buy the 40s2030 as well, but I'd rather wait until I've got the money back just incase I have any problems. (anyone know how Dabs are for refunds?)

If it's anything like the 32v2000 (I would imagine it is, as it's exactly the same, other than the lack of WCG-CCFL) then you want to start by disabling all the processing/advanced options.

For greyscale on the 32v2000, "Neutral" seemed best with "Clear White" set to low.

There's a few ways to set brightness and contrast. Some people prefer to get the absolute black from a display (which is usually the default 50 setting on Sony LCDs) whereas others, like myself, don't care so much about absolute black, but rather shadow details, and others prefer to have it even lower, to give more depth to the image. (Lyris)

I've written a guide on setting up displays for the 360 here, but I'm still working on improving the patterns I created. (note: the zip file listed there won't work - just save the previews, as resolution doesn't really make a difference to these tests)

This is one that I've not asked a number of people to test first, like I usually do, but it seems to work well so far:



First, you want to reset brightness/contrast to the defaults (that'll be 50/100 on the BRAVIAs iirc)

In the band of white, you should be able to see four different blocks, each slightly dimmer than the next, with a thin white block separating each. If not, turn down contrast until you can.

Once you've done that, you want to set brightness until you can see all eight dark blocks - four along the top, and four along the bottom. If you can already see them, leave it alone. If not, turn brightness up notch-by-notch until you can just see the first one. Some TVs aren't great at bringing out shadow details, so you might find that you need to turn it up to ridiculous levels to see them all - if that's the case, only do it for the second block, or keep moving up until there is one you can see with a reasonable black level.

These settings won't get you the best absolute black level, but it should make shadow details nice and visible - having both the black and white patterns onscreen at once means that you get a more real-world test, which provides a better picture overall, in my opinion. If you just use a pattern that's all dark, or all bright, then you might find that while the details are technically still there on the panel, you might not be able to actually see them, due to how your eye works.

For the 360, I think I finally settled on around 7 for sharpness. Colour is something you'll have to eyeball really - I just set it until skintones look "right."

As for backlight - set power saving on low, and adjust it to suit your surroundings - I found 3-5 fairly good. (lyris prefers his on high power saving - equivalent to 0 low, but I find that too dim)

[sj33]

Cheers for that mate

The image over VGA is totally spiff anyway, and actually looks a bit better with colour temperature set to Cool (as Normal looks dimmer w/ a slight shade of green when it should be white).
Contrast - Max (could lower that, I'll fiddle later), Brightness 50 (it default at 40 and couldn't see the black boxes mentioned above - sorted now).

The real issue was the 360 over Component, which looked like is had been processed to the bone... nasty stuff. This definately looked better with all the image 'enhancement' stuff turned off.

[Lyris]

Gonna hook up the Dreamcast later to see how it handles 640x480.

You will smile lots!