XBOX - Random power offs and the odd crash?!

[Friction]

Hello all,

I've had my XBOX for ages now and it's been fine for as long as I have had it - aside from the time I blew the power supply up, but that was easily fixed!

Recently (as in within the last week) it's turned itself off twice for no reason and also crashed twice, the second time happening literally 5 mins after the first.

I see no reason for this, other than it being a heat problem? My bedroom tends to get very hot and I have my box in a unit over my TV, but this has never been an issue before. I've had the XBOX at least 2-3 years and this is the only time it's done this.

Do you think this is anything to worry about? It turned itself off yesterday after about 4 hours of play, I'd gone for dinner so it had been left for a while. When I came back I got at least 5 hours of play out of it (Damn you Fahrenheit!) before it crashed twice.

The only thing I have done to the machine lately is change the case on it, and thus it has a new rear fan - it could just be coincidence though?

After both crashes and the first power off the CPU temp (according to EVOX) was around the 60-61 degrees C mark if that's of interest?!

Any thoughts or ideas?

I doubt my machine is dying but better safe that sorry!

[fahrenheit]

(Damn you Fahrenheit!)

What did I do?

60 degrees shouldn't be giving you any trouble with the CPU but the graphic chip may be running hot. What speed does the replacement fan run at and have you altered the fan speed in software?

Could be a thermal issue. Try and see if you can spot a pattern, like how soon after boot does it switch off. Also try leaving it on idle without gaming from cold and see whether it stays on. If you are getting freezes (image is still on screen) then that would suggest a problem with the graphics chip.

Secondly, did you replace the power supply with one of those universal third-party ones? I have person experience with one and they can be very flaky, exactly the same behaviour as you described.

[Friction]

What did I do?

Ha ha nothing yet

Right I had my XBOX on from 8.30am yesterday morning pretty much all day - It was on at least 12 hours, probably more with no issues at all. I made sure I had the window open and kept my room well ventilated and the temp was around 58 degrees everytime I checked - though I did play a fair few games when of course I coudln't monitor it.

Towards the end of the days power on - 11pm or (where it had been on all day) the temp did increase to 61.4 (mainly due to curtains closed and general house heating up I guess) and it did power itself off once. I checked it all after than and seems ok though I did power down for the night shortly after.

Far as power supply goes when I blew it I got an official 1.0 (I have an old xbox) off ebay but that was at ages ago (Jan 2004 to be more exact) and I've had no problems with it since. I did have an issue where my box would turn off almost right after power on, and struggle to boot but that was because I hadn't plugged the power cord in properly Sorted that and it was fine.

The power off problem has happened more than the freezing - It freezed twice - before that it froze whilst playing Beatdown, but that game is known to have the odd freezing problem according to some forums.

Is the graphics chip replaceable should it be that a problem?

I've done nothing to the fan software wise, just ramped it up in media centre to see if that makes a difference and it does but that speed decreases when I exit the prog.

I'm wondering if its because my XBOX is in quite a closed space, with granted not the best ventilation in the world?

I remember Will of Londonconsole.com checked my machine out for me when I blew the supply and he said that it is possible to damage the other components in doing so, graphics being one of them, but that was years ago so why should there be problems with it now? unless of course my power supply is on the out?

Thanks for the info thus far

EDIT - Just turned it on and left in on idle dash for about 25 minutes. CPU temp rose from around 35 to 58.8 - seems like its still rising however. MB is idle at 45 (didnt check start temp) and the HDD is clocking 38 (again didn't check start temp).

How do I check the fan speed? What software can do this etc?

Second EDIT - CPU temp is upto 60 (though it did go a bit higher, its around the 60 mark on average) - This is an hour and 10 minutes after turning it on.

Also when I changed the case I took my US machine out of its original black 1.0 case and put it in a PAL Green official case (got from this forum) is that likely to be an issue? Should I try putting the fan from my original case into this one and see what that does?

[Friction]

Sorry to bring this one back from the dead, but just as I thought I had fixed this problem it's back again

I managed to sort it initially by opening up the machine and checking everything inside. I have an old 1.0 machine, and on the GPU is a crap little heatsink with a fan on. The fan was very noisy and rattly and appeared to be on the way out so I was going to replace it. My brother sorted me out with a larger heatsink that came of a 1.4 XBOX mobo which appeared to solve the problem.

Playing today though and once more I got a random power off - CPU temp upto 61.4 and MB temp up from the usual 46 to 49 degrees.

Is this temp level anything to worry about?

I know that usually GPU problems cause a freeze not a power off - is this correct information?

I was loading a game (off HDD mind) and I swear I saw the odd little glitch on screen whilst loading - only whilst loading not during the game which I played for a good 20 mins after.

The machine just turned itself off dead which could possibly mean a power supply issue?

Any thoughts or ideas? Don't fancy my machine dying completly as getting another and chipping it etc would be annoying, no to mention the loss of some of my saves - the ones that cannot be copied!

Any help appreciated!

Cheers

[fahrenheit]

Damn, sorry I missed the last reply, never received an email notification. Anyways v1.0, power supply, is it a Foxlink brand? If so, take it out of the case and check the underside where the black plastic plug socket is soldered to the PCB.
These two solder points are particularly weak and break easily when the power cord is forced into the socket. You should be able to see a hairline crack around the points if they are damaged.

This was actually the real reason for the power cord replacements that were sent out, the new cords are molded in a way that prevents them from pushing in too far. The real issue was the power supply design, but MS sure as hell won't admit to that, they would prefer to bandage it up with the new cords. The problem being is that if the damage is already done, the new cords won't prevent the supply from failing, it just a half-measure to reduce the chances of damage.

But I digress, lets establish if this is the issue.

[Friction]

Thanks for the help Fahrenheit, really appreciate it.

I won't be able to do too much until tomorrow now, because it's actually my brother who does all the opening and tinkering inside my XBOX. He isn't around at the moment so will get him to check tomorrow

I'll find out what make the power supply is, but as I do know it's a proper MS one, not a third party one. Is the Foxlink brand a brand MS use - just like Sony outsource too?

I've had the machine on for a good few hours since the power off before and it seems to be fine at the moment. Played a few games and when not gaming just left it running doing stuff and all seems good. I know I noticed the odd sorta glitch in loading before but that's only been on one game of the HDD - Ninja Gaiden Black - anyone who has this knows the first load is a real HDD beater and this could be why it acted funny.

I'll keep you posted on any updates to the situation:

Currently CPU is @ 61.4 degrees C and the MB is @ 48 degrees C

This is with a good 4 hour run (at least!) since last power off

EDIT: Played some more Ninja Gaiden Black, no glitchs or power offs to report, however MB (GPU) has reached what would seem to be it's max temp for mw which is 50 degrees C!!! Is this too hot or at acceptable levels?

The graphics card in my PC cooks at 68 degrees C with no problems in comparison.....

[fahrenheit]

Well you can always give the cord a little bit of a wiggle and see it it shuts off or makes any crackling sounds. Hairline fractures only need a very slight variance in position to be the difference between connection and non-connection.

Foxlink is a company that produced powersupplies for the v1.0 and v1.1 consoles, Delta is the other brand you will find, also made for those models, but more commonly found on all models after.
This thread will be of interest to you if you do infact have a problem with your PSU and gives instructions on how to fix it. http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=361537

As for the temperatures for GPU and CPU, I don't see anything to worry about there. The GPU could be on the way out, but I would expect you would see the result (with lots of glitches and freezes) before the machine cuts itself off.

Sadly I have a v1.0 which has recently developed an unexplained and currently unfixable fault (its my Japanese Limited Edition Skeleton Black that you see in my avatar ) These v1.0 models seem to be reaching the end of their working life and the mortality rate seems to be increasing going by reports on the mod scene.

[Friction]

Thanks again for the useful info mate!

I'll be checking it out tomorrow evening when my brother gets home from work, see if we can sort it then.

When you say the GPU could be on the way out do you mean that in the way that it might rain fish tomorrow - ie it could be but then it might just be the power supply giving me grief? I've had freezes but not many - 2 detailed in my earlier post and once I noticed what could have been glitchs but nothing since.

I really hope its my power supply as I must admit I do unplug and plug it back in more times than most people would - my box never just sits there untouched, it moves around a bit.

I realise frying my original power supply could have done damage but I did that nearly 2 years ago so I would have thought any issues would have arisen before now!?

Sorry to hear about your box dying, I really hope mine doesn't - the thought of having to get a new Xbox, chipping it etc really isn't a nice one. Especially so close to the 360 release - but then I guess regular Xboxs would get cheaper??

[fahrenheit]

Yeah I doubt its the GPU, but they do often decline, rather than die outright with increasing freezes and glitches, but you would see some consistency, not just the occasional one or two. The fact that the machine has just turned itself off without warning does seem to point to the powersupply as being the likely culprit.

Another good thing is that one of the newer more reliable powersupplies can have the plug modded to fit a v1.0/v1.1 motherboard, so you don't have to have the impossible task of hunting for one of these increasingly rarer supplies. And if its just a solder problem, then that can be fixed and improved anyways.

[Friction]

Just a small update, bigger one comes later.

I just tried moving the power lead a bit whilst the machine was on to see what happened but nothing did. Granted I did it very slightly and put next to no effort into it as I didn't want to make things worse!

I'll check the power supply out tonight, looked at that link you provided before and it seems the PSU being a problem is a lot more common than any kind of GPU failure! Quite calming to know

I didn't know you could mod the newer supplies too! Do you just cut the end of and rewire the plug in or something?

Also I should add (wasn't sure if I mentioned this before) when I changed the case over the machine wouldn't initially boot up first time from cold. It would come up, whirl up then turn off, then come on again and be ok. I fixed this by pushing the power lead in further and never had the problem again. The power lead was in a fair amount - didn't look like it was loose etc

Further indication the power supply is funny?

[Salsa Party Animal]

Have you tried using the xbox in a different socket as your power supply socket could cause problems.

Also it might be cheaper to buy a 2nd hand xbox than spending money trying to fix the xbox.

Just a shot in the dark.

[Friction]

You mean a different wall socket mate?


Can't say I have to be honest, certainly will if the power supply investigations due later tonight turn up nothing.

I certainly would consider a cheap XBOX should the need arise, I just want a fully working maching like I used to! The one I have now is actually second hand!

I just dont want to spend a fortune on it so close to the 360 coming out.

I know the 360 will play most Xbox games, but I love my current modded machine for media player and games off HDD!

[Friction]

Sorry to double post, but I've done some investigation in the machine and so it's time to update.


Right checked the power supply for a make, only name I could see on it was 'Delta' so I presume thats the make - not the poorer Foxlink which is a good sign perhaps?

On removing the power supply my brother checked all the joints for any signs of problems - cracks, dry joints etc. Everything there was fine, no issues at all. Also the socket where the power lead plugs in was checked to see if it was lose or wobbly, but again no problems. The socket was very solid and had no movement at all - also no cracks or issues when jigglying the lead when powered on.

One thing my brother did notice was that since the case change (he has had a similiar problem with his mobo when he changed cases) that the screw that hold the power supply in place were actually too long, meaning there was a little slack and this allowed the power supply to move around a bit - basically it was not held and fixed into place as it should be.

Thankfully this was easily fixed - my brother builds computers in his spare time so had plenty of screws and rubbery washer things to pack things down and get a much tighter fit and thus hardly any travel on the board.

Also as it was open, and to rule out any heat problems (due to my machine living in a fairly confined space) my brother also did the 12v fan mod to ensure I get loads more cooling air into the machine and to just keep things cooler in general.

Obviously I can't really test it for a problem that by all accounts is random, but at the moment I have it streaming some radio through Xbox media centre and giving Milkdrop a good blast to see how hot things get.

I'll update later with temps.

[fahrenheit]

Hmmm, check that no part of the motherboard is grounding on the case. Its a v1.0 in a ??? version case? do all the screw mounts match up with the holes on the mobo?

[Friction]

All the screws meet the right whole as far as I know - its just they were a bit too long.

Mobo is seated fine as far as I know. My brother would have noticed any problems I am sure. He's good with things like that unlike me! As I mentioned my brother had the same problem, when he put his machine (a 1.6 board I think) into a Crystal case the mobo screws he had were too long, so he had to use some different ones to get the mobo in place properly.

My mobo went in fine, just the power supply did not.

Is it right to assume if it was shorting it would do so all the time and not just some of the time? I mean there isn't any moving parts as such?!

Its a 1.0 Xbox is a Clear green Xbox (PAL) case - not sure what version that would be, will try to find out.

As far as temps go it's too early to say as it has not been on long enough, but it is much cooler. CPU is down around 10degrees C and the GPU/Mobo is down a good 7-10.

I think now it's really just a wait and see situation now.

Thanks for all the help so far, really appreciate it!