PS3 vs Xbox 360 1080p support question!

[fahrenheit]

I know that ANA/HANA don't handle scaling, but apparently there is a hardware scaler incorporated into Xenos. You can read more about it (and scaling in general on 360/PS3) here:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

Nevermind, think I'm hung up on semantics.

[MattyD]

...which makes no difference if the scaler is implemented at the hardware level, which it is. It doesn't need to be a separate chip. Software uspcaling through the GPU is only necessary for games like CoD4 which don't natively render HD. And they don't need to do it through GPU functions either, it's just that the GPU is incredibly powerful at the type of number-crunching required for upscaling so it makes more sense to push it through there rather than the CPU.

[sj33]

I know that ANA/HANA don't handle scaling, but apparently there is a hardware scaler incorporated into Xenos. You can read more about it (and scaling in general on 360/PS3) here:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

There are some crazy resolutions there!

Soul Calibur IV 360 = 1365x960 (no AA, software scaled to 720p)

So, render above 720p and scale down?

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriot = 1024x768 (2xAA, temporal)

Hoho, so it's actually rendering at 4:3, and using animorphic to achieve a 16:9 effect? Cheeky!

[EvilBoris]

I dunno if you're talking about the PS3 (which I believe doesn't support 1080i, it seems to be a common moan) but I just grabbed five games from the top of my 360 pile and they all show 1080i support on the back, but not all of them show 1080p. Gears of War does 720p or 1080i and that's it but the other four all say 1080i / 1080p (DMC4, R6V2, Orange Box, Halo 3).

1080i means the machine is only drawing slightly more pixels per frame than 720p so it's no big deal in terms of hardware performance.

It's because 1080p was only added in at a later date as option option in a dash update, so anything prior to that states 1080i.

All games list ALL resolutions now

[Papercut]

Nah it doesn't work like that mate. A games console can't render in 1080i, you can't have an interlaced framebuffer.

1080i support in GT4 on the PS2 works in exactly that way.

... agreed that modern consoles do not render internally at 1080i though, but that isn't to say that it couldn't be done.

[Flinty]

I can't help but feel a little short changed if I buy the PS3 version of game now, knowing that most games can only go up to 720p, I mean the games don't look terrible in 720p but I always thought that the PS3 would be the better machine.

Maybe I should stick to excluisive titles for the PS3 then.

[sj33]

It's not like they're actually in 1080p on the 360 though, either. Though I admit the lack of upscaling is a rather large hole in the PS3.

[Matt]

I can't help but feel a little short changed if I buy the PS3 version of game now, knowing that most games can only go up to 720p, I mean the games don't look terrible in 720p but I always thought that the PS3 would be the better machine.

Maybe I should stick to excluisive titles for the PS3 then.

I wouldn't worry about it. The consoles this gen aren't powerful enough for 1080; they're struggling with 720@60fps!

Besides, unless you have a really large screen, you can't really tell 1080 and 720 apart at normal viewing distances.

[randombs]

Pretty much the only people who really got shafted by the PS3's lack of upscaling (for want of a better term) were those with old-style HDTVs that did 480p and 1080i but not 720p - the 360 would just output whatever you set it to so it'd resize the 720p* games to 1080i no problems, whereas the PS3 would play these 720p* games at 480p and not 1080i. I leave my PS3 in 720p mode (my telly's 1360x768 anyway) as I prefer it to 1080i as I can see the interlacing and it puts me off.

Don't feel short-changed, mate, as these manufacturers always make wickedly-bold claims to hype up their consoles every generation, and this time around 1080p and flipflops were the main buzzwords flying about

But at least you have a better idea of the resolution of PS3 games than 360 games from the box, unless it's a misprint.

* 720p/640p/555p/50p

[belmondo]

I can't help but feel a little short changed if I buy the PS3 version of game now, knowing that most games can only go up to 720p, I mean the games don't look terrible in 720p but I always thought that the PS3 would be the better machine.

Maybe I should stick to excluisive titles for the PS3 then.

There may be resolution differences between PS3 and 360 versions of the same game, but I don't know of any where one version renders at 1920 x 1080 and the other doesn't. The vast majority of 360 games render in (or around) 720p, and then are scaled to 1080p before sending the image to the TV. The only difference in that regard on the PS3 is that the image is 720p and then TV does the scaling.

[Link83]

There may be resolution differences between PS3 and 360 versions of the same game, but I don't know of any where one version renders at 1920 x 1080 and the other doesn't. The vast majority of 360 games render in (or around) 720p, and then are scaled to 1080p before sending the image to the TV. The only difference in that regard on the PS3 is that the image is 720p and then TV does the scaling.

But isnt it better for the console to do the scaling instead of the TV? (So making the 360 versions superior)

[sj33]

Depends which has the better scaler. It all pans out about the same, in reality. And you could spin it on it's head - the fact that the 360 can't just output things in their actual resolution surely annoys anyone using an external scaler

[Brad]

It's easy to get hung up on this stuff. Any time I find myself getting concerned about this kind of thing I just remind my self that the movie Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, from a standard definition DVD looks better than any videogame I have ever seen. IMO we really didn't even needs game consoles to be high def yet.

[Link83]

So can I just check ive got this right:-

Xbox 360
Games are usually natively 720p, but there are also some games with non-standard resolutions (such as Halo 3, Perfect Dark, Project Gotham, etc) All games are either upscaled or downscaled by the 360 to the resolution you set in the Xbox dashboard - which should match you screens resolution if possible (If they dont match you screen will be doing scaling aswell)

PS3
All games are natively 720p, and can be downscaled for older TV's - but not upscaled. If your screen has a resolution higher than 1280x720 it has to do the upscaling itself.

Original Xbox (Only on XBox's set to NTSC with Component cable)
Games are mostly 480p (May depend of the softwares region) but there are a few games which support 720p and 1080i. There are options for 480p, 720p and 1080i in the NTSC Xbox dashboard which when enabled will allow any games that offer those resolutions to display it. The Xbox does not upscale games.

Sound about right?

Oh and one more question, during the PS2, Xbox and Gamecube era most video output resolutions were dictated by the game software.
With the PS3 and Xbox 360 is this no longer the case? (Eg theres no PS3/Xbox 360 games which support 720p on the NTSC version, but not the PAL version?)

[Dazzyman]

Not all games are native 720p m8. The odd games what have weird res on 360 are the same on PS3 like COD4 they just get scaled on PS3 to say 720p max where as on 360 you can use its scaler to upscale to a higher output. I can think of 1 PS3 game Uncharted that had 1080i ripped out of euro version but its in USA/JPN so it can still be down to software on PS3.

Basically though run your games in 720p and on 360 see if you want to alter it to 1080p or not. It always depends on your panel an the output of your panel if you want to get 1:1 pixel mapping or not ie for me I scale my 360 to 1080p as I want full pixel as I dont like overscan and as I have a 1080p panel (Sony X) that what I need to run at to keep it native. Some panels hate 1080i/p even if they support em for games and will judder or you will get latency some dont its really down to you to see what you like best but as long as you get 720p out of it I wouldnt worry too much as that what their all running near enough natively and everything else done good or bad is a bonus