Modded US Wii - what do you mean it doesn't output RGB?!

[Sketcz]

Oh man, I have ****ed up soooo badly this time.

Despite asking on various forums, no one informed me of the fact that a US Wii does NOT output in RGB, only S-video. The guy who sold it to me uses this forum, so if he sees this: not your fault, it was a fantastic deal, I just didn?t do my research in all the excitement

What I discovered today:

http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.php?t=67814

And no, I didn?t bother before buying to do a google search on what I thought was a fundamental part of most systems. So, the system came with AV cables, which I used for a bit, thinking I?d soon upgrade to RGB SCART.

So I went and bought an RGB SCART cable, and it doesn?t work, obviously. The whole screen is red. A red screen tint over everything.

Meaning my wonderful new modded US Wii is basically unplayable, because all I can run it with is AV cables. I absolutely HATE using AV cables ? retro games never look as good on a CRT as they do with RGB SCART. And no, nothing is going to make me run this on my HD TV, since anything with sprites looks absolutely diabolical (omg, what have they done to you Dracula X? Where are your scanlines, my beloved child ).

So, is there any way to fix this? Otherwise my machine is useless.

* I?ve seen there are apparently lossless component to RGB converters, but these are like ?100! Is there a cheaper alternative? Can I hack an old DVD machine, or a PC graphics card or something to create my own Comp2RGB converter?

* Can I mod a US Wii to output RGB? Seriously, I will cut this baby up and solder it something good, just to get a better picture.

* Anyone want to trade a modded US Wii for a modded UK Wii that outputs RGB?


Maybe I should just spend ?100 buying the component converter...?

[egparadigm]

Link83's your man for this kind of stuff.

At a guess, you might get what you're after by using AnyRegionChanger through homebrew to switch your Wii to PAL, or perhaps just using PAL games through Gecko OS. I don't know if it's a hardware or software thing, though.

[Sketcz]

Well, perversely, switching my SNES emulator to PAL60 corrected the red screen problem and displayed it in colour, though I don't think the signal being sent to the television is actually RGB. At least, the SNES games looked no better than when the Wii was hooked up via the 3 AV cables and it was outputting NTSC via the emu's options.

I might have to double check this. But I'm guessing the quality of running stuff as PAL60 on a US Wii via a SCART cable is the same as running the whole system through AV cables plugged into a SCART adapter and stuck in the back. I mean, unless I mod the motherboard, the machine simply won't output an RGB signal, will it? Can it?

I tried running an NTSC game, and forcing the video as PAL60, but it crashed the system with a green screen of death.

EDIT:
Link83 is a clever chappy!

NTSC and PAL Wii's are not different at all hardware wise, the only difference is the software, which tells the console which video modes to support.

This causes a problems, as NTSC Wii games will tell a Wii console to output Composite, S-Video and Component, and PAL games will tell it to output Composite, RGB and Component.

[Escape-To-88]

The guy who sold it to me uses this forum, so if he sees this: not your fault, it was a fantastic deal, I just didn’t do my research in all the excitement

Sorry to hear this John, and as I mentioned I didn't use this with a RGB lead so I was completely unaware of this. What a stupid bloody idea not making the NTSC systems output RGB - then again I guess they have no need for that in the States.

Have you tried forcing the games into PAL60? Using Coverfloader or one of the other USB loaders?

There IS a way to make the console PAL *I think!?* and I think, as someone mentioned, this can be done via AnyRegionChanger - BUT this would obviously not alter the Video Out as it's a hardware issue not software.

As you note changing the emu to PAL60 would correct this problem as it is sending a PAL signal. As for displaying true RGB I'm not sure, but like yourself I'd guess it's not a true signal. I do know a man who can mod the board i.e. replace the U.S board for a U.K one for about £50. If this is of interest please let me know dude. Sorry you're having problems.

[Link83]

Thanks for the compliments!

I'm afraid to say though that there is no hardware mod yet that allows you to force RGB permanently on NTSC Wii consoles, so your only left with a couple of options...

As you have already read some of my previous posts im sure you dont want me to go over all the info again! But i'll link to the some relevant posts just in case anybody else wants to read them:-

http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.php?p=1546183#post1546183

and

http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.php?p=1556225#post1556225

NTSC and PAL Wii's are not different at all hardware wise, the video mode it completely set in software (This means swapping out the motherboard for a PAL Wii motherboard is probably not worthwhile)

You basically have two options:-

1) You could change your NTSC Wii into a PAL Wii using a homebrew program like 'AnyRegion Changer', which can completely change your console into one that is functionally identical to a PAL Wii, and as the PAL Wii system menu supports RGB then you should have no problems seeing the system menu using an RGB Scart cable

Usually this would also mean that you can only play PAL Wii games (unless you then use a homebrew launcher such as 'Gecko OS') However, you could also have your Wii menu set as one region (eg PAL) whilst having your 'game region' set as another (eg NTSC) - but I have never tried this myself so cant say if this is safe to do etc.

Theres one big disadvantage to this method though - i'm guessing the main reason you bought an NTSC Wii was to play NTSC Wii games? If you switch your console into a PAL Wii then RGB will work fine in the system menu and when playing PAL Wii games, but if you try and play NTSC Wii games then in most cases it will switch the console to the 'NTSC video settings' when the game boots, which will cause the 'red screen' again.

Of course the opposite should be true aswell, you could keep you console NTSC and connected by RGB Scart, and then navigate the Wii menu with the 'red screen' then use Gecko OS to boot a PAL Wii game which should immediately switch into full colour RGB when booting.

Theres was some effort by homebrewers being made to disable the video mode switch, but im not sure if they have managed it yet.

IMPORTANT NOTE - If you opt to switch your NTSC Wii into a PAL Wii I would highly recommend installing 'BootMii' and backing up your Wii's NAND memory first, so that even if your mess up with the region change you can still get your Wii back to how it was before you made the changes.

2) As you have already suggested, you could buy a Component to RGB convertor. I have seen ones available alot cheaper than £100 on eBay, but I have never had to use one so couldnt vouch for their quality.

Those are pretty much your only choices at the moment im afraid

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its important to realise that only PAL Wii consoles and PAL Wii games are coded to officially support RGB, and until either:-

- Homebrewers figure out the coding for different video modes and how to switch the modes, or prevent them from being switched when booting games (Its simply a few lines of code in the system menu/game boot sequence that decides what video modes to support)

or

- Modders figure out how to force the Wii's Video Chip to output only RGB.

Then the options I mentioned further up are currently the only choices if you need RGB.

(It is quite likely possible to 'force' the Wii's DAC/Video Chip to output only RGB (aswell as VGA) by using a simple high/low select pin (Like the GameCube Component cable mods) but as yet no-one seems to have really investigated this, and unfortunately I dont have the necessary equipment to do so (oscillosope, etc) The video chip is also made specifically for Nintendo by 'Rohm' so there will never be an official pinout to the chip, and at the moment Wii's are still too expensive to be tinkering with)

Dont forgot though that NTSC Wii consoles do support S-Video which might be an acceptable option instead of RGB?

If you really need RGB then I think the easiest way by far is to buy a PAL Wii console (Or change your NTSC Wii console into a PAL one) and then buy PAL Wii games - which is exactly what I have done for the most part (Except for Madworld and No More Heroes for obvious reasons)

Sorry I couldnt be of more help

[J0e Musashi]

S-VHS isn't really that much worse than RGB anyway, why don't you just use that? It'll save plenty hassle non?

[gunrock]

I use an JS Technolgy YUV to RGB converter to output to my 33-inch 4:3 TV. It's pricey at 90 quid but also has the option to output progressive component to VGA, which is useful when take my Wii upstairs to the bedroom to play on the LCD there. I can vouch for the quality of the conversion, it's loss free and like all JS Tech products top notch reliability and build quality.

I was lucky, I picked it up for 30 quid on Ebay.

Keene Electronics used do a similar thing, but I can no longer find it.

For something cheaper, Maplin's do this and I don't know if it will work, but it does say it's bi-directional. You'll have to put the audio to an amp though.

Monster scart/YUV converter

[charlesr]

Isn't the composite on the Wii meant to be pretty good anyway? It's either that or the RGB isn't that hot. Can't remember which.

[Papercut]

Option 3)

You can change the video mode to PAL using any region changer, which disables s-video and enables RGB. This is separate to the disk region, system menu region, and online (shop) region!

I've done this on my US Wii, which worked-ish, but older VC games tended to hang (those not expecting RGB video to be enabled). You are likely to run into compatibility problems, but it might be worth a shot. The disk games I tried worked, but it may be the same situation as VC where older games have problems.

*edit* s-video is good, RGB is good, composite video is pretty poor.

[Link83]

Option 3)

You can change the video mode to PAL using any region changer, which disables s-video and enables RGB. This is separate to the disk region, system menu region, and online (shop) region!

I've done this on my US Wii, which worked-ish, but older VC games tended to hang (those not expecting RGB video to be enabled). You are likely to run into compatibility problems, but it might be worth a shot. The disk games I tried worked, but it may be the same situation as VC where older games have problems.

*edit* s-video is good, RGB is good, composite video is pretty poor.

I wasnt aware that you could switch the Wii's video mode independently of the system menu's region (I dont think it was an option last time I used AnyRegion Changer, although that was admittedly quite a few revisions ago now!)

Nice to know that some NTSC Wii games do work with RGB enabled Is it just some recent NTSC Wii games you have tested?

I guess its all down to the way the games were programmed. I know that most Nintendo developed games used to switch the consoles video mode when booting, causing the 'red screen' problem.

I would really hope that all modern Wii games could take their 'cue' from the System Menu's video setting, but thats upto the individual game developers/programmers to impliment so it might never be standard (Unless Nintendo makes it mandatory)

Sounds like for the moment its a case of 'try it and see' - unless someone compiles a list

"Nintendo and RGB - never the happy couple"

[fallenangle]

I have to disagree about composite being necessarily bad. It depends so much on the TV how close the picture quality is between it's various inputs. With a PAL Gamecube my JVC CRT gives surprisingly good Composite PQ and before I sourced a Component cable I had to play several 60Hz only GC games through Composite and they looked great.
But I wouldn't use S-Video on that TV for anything whereas on my 100Hz Sony CRT the PQ of XBox/DC/PS2 via S-Video and RGB SCART is very close. Composite comes a noticeably poorer third.

My point is, as said by others, don't dismiss S-Video, it's got to be your best bet for the time being. But I would recommend finding a good deal on a YUV to RGB (or VGA if applicable) converter through eBay. It is probably your most practical/financially sensible solution.

[Sketcz]

In truth, composite (red, white, yellow) isn't always bad. My Turbo Duo looked lovely through composite. But there's definite fuzz on the Wii using it.

I don't have a circular S-Video socket on my TV. Though other forums have said that the second SCART socket on my TV might actually receive S-Video signals... I'm not quite sure how that would work.

I think I'll try the video switch, and hope for the best. Game loaders can also force the video mode of games - so I might try, and see what happens. I'm glad it's been clarified that the system itself is capable of outputting RGB...

[kernow]

You can get a little scart block that has an SVHS input for about 4 quid.

[SuperDanX]

In truth, composite (red, white, yellow) isn't always bad. My Turbo Duo looked lovely through composite.

yup my pc engine looks lovely with composite, my megadrive although pin sharp via rgb just looks wrong imo, teh retro often looks better with comp even though that goes against all convetional wisdom.

[Escape-To-88]

It's also worth mentioning that the Wii has, so I have been told, one of the best composite outputs!? That said it, as many other people have pointed out, totally depends on your set-up I guess. The Wii in question looked pretty poor on my set via VGA (worse than composite in fact), but component looked great.