Modded US Wii - what do you mean it doesn't output RGB?!

[fallenangle]

The description of the overall red tint has been bothering me. I like to understand these things.

I've just done a little researching about the pinouts on the Wii and the reason for the RGB SCART lead giving a red tint seems to be because one of the US Wii S-Video outputs is on the 'wrong' pin for a normally wired PAL Wii RGB SCART cable.

If I've understood the pinout diagrams correctly using a RGB SCART cable with the US Wii outputting S-Video means its luminance signal is being sent to the green (SCART pin 11) input rather than the video (SCART pin 20) input required for correct S-Video display via SCART. The S-video chrominance signal is sent, correctly for S-Video, to the red input (pin SCART 15).* (SEE EDIT)

I'd guess that since the TV is not receiving the S-Video signal as it should it behaves as if it is receiving RGB but as there are only two inputs, and again I guess, the red channel signal is strongest, you get the red overall tint.

If this is all correct you could probably mod the Wii RGB SCART cable to give S-Video via SCART with just one relatively simple bit of re-soldering ie, swapping the green input to the video input pin in the SCART plug.

Whether you'd need a smoothing capacitor on it as well I'm not sure. Perhaps the resident experts here would know.


* NB. As pointed out in my later post I've accidentally reversed the Wii's S-Video chrominance and luminance output connections in my description. It should have read: using a RGB SCART cable with a US Wii the S-Video luminance output will be incorrectly connected to the red input (SCART pin 15) and the S-Video chrominance output incorrectly connected to the green input (SCART pin 11).

Obviously this means two bits of re-soldering would be required to mod the RGB SCART cable for S-Video. ie. chrominance to red input (SCART pin 15) and luminance to video input (SCART pin 20)

Useful console pinout diagram:-

http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#wii

[Link83]

The description of the overall red tint has been bothering me. I like to understand these things.

I've just done a little researching about the pinouts on the Wii and the reason for the RGB SCART lead giving a red tint seems to be because one of the US Wii S-Video outputs is on the 'wrong' pin for a normally wired PAL Wii RGB SCART cable.

Yes I have actually mentioned this exact reason for the Wii 'red screen' issue previously (Although im afraid you have misunderstood the signals/connections):-

http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.php?t=95925#post1535993

This is also exactly the same thing that happens with the Wii when playing NTSC games over an RGB Scart cable - again just coincidentally the Y/Luma signal is also output on the same pin/wire as one of the RGB signals - this time though its the Red signal, so you get a totally red picture (instead of green as with the PS2).

The 'red screen' is simply a side effect of the Wii's S-Video Luma signal being sent over the same pin/wire as the RGB Red signal. The Wii's S-Video Luma and Chroma signals are both sent over the the same pins/wires as the RGB Red and Green signals respectively. However the Luma/Chroma signals dont match the pins in the Scart plug that S-Video can be input over a Scart connection.

Your TV doesnt know how to interpret the Chroma information on the Green input pin so it disregards it, but it does 'understand' the Luma (or black and white) signal information. As your TV expects any signals coming over Scart pin 15 to be an RGB Red signal it simply makes a red image from the Luma signal picture information it has.

The same principle applies to the PS2 when playing back DVD's over RGB Scart, only this time you get a Green screen because the Luma signal is output on the same pin/wire as the RGB Green signal, so giving a 'Green screen' instead (on the PS2 its actually the Luma signal from Component YPbPr, but both S-Video and Component Luma signals are exactly the same)

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If you wanted to make use of this S-Video signal you would need to rewire the Red and Green signal wires in the RGB Scart cables plug to the correct Luma and Chroma input pins for Scart S-Video, and then you would need to use the second Scart socket on your TV (Commonly called 'AV2') No smoothing capacitors or extra components are needed for the Wii's S-Video.

You could also fit a double pole double throw switch on the Scart plug if you were so inclined so that you could go between S-Video and RGB wiring (It wouldnt change the Wii's actual video output mind) but you would also need to swap the connected Scart socket aswell at the same time, as Scart sockets cant support both S-Video and RGB - only one or the other.

To be honest though I am not sure how beneficial this mod would be over buying a cheap Wii S-Video or RGB Scart cable and switching between the two cables when necessary

Its also worth mentioning that alot of people online seem to think that the 'red screen' issue is due to the persons TV not supporting NTSC signals (In particular the Eurogamer forums when the Wii Freeloader was released) not realising that RGB does not use NTSC or PAL color encoding as its simply Red, Green, and Blue as the name implies! So that would never have been the problem or cause for the red screen.

Sorry for the long post

[fallenangle]

Many apologies, correctly worked out the underlying cause but made a basic mistake with the detail, - it's what happens when you post late in the evening without re-checking thoroughly.

So sorry about accidentally getting the info on S-Video luminance and chrominance Wii to SCART pins connections the wrong way round. Of course this means to mod a Wii RGB SCART cable to S-Video two bits of re-soldering will be required rather than just one.

Obviously a purpose made S-Video cable would be an easier solution but as the OP had bought a (useless to him) RGB cable, modding it would just be the cheapest, practical alternative to shelling out more dosh.

[Link83]

No need to apologise fallenangle

I hope I dont come across as a know-it-all who makes long boring posts, I only try to help if I can - and I certainly dont know everything! I'm always open to new ideas/corrections if somebody knows something I dont

[fallenangle]

No not at all. I'm a relative novice when it comes to such matters and I'm always interested to learn more. If I've made an mistake I have no problem with people pointing it out so I can correct it. There is so much duff information out there on t'web and I certainly don't want to be adding to it accidentally.

[Sketcz]

So, I did some experimenting.

PAL/NTSC RGB THOUGHTS
Switched the system video to PAL (NEVER switch it to MPAL - I thought I'd bricked the machine for a while). Some things don't work, some do. Games that did work were bordered though - BADLY bordered. Like Muscle March, for example. The sound/game seemed to be running at a normal pace, but it was heavily bordered. And Drac X also had borders, and looked disgusting compared to when it was NTSC and running through AV cables.

When I played NTSC games on my PAL Gamecube, they played fullscreen and in colour through a scart cable. I assume this was because they were sending an NTSC RGB signal to my TV? Whereas now, with the video set to PAL, it's still sending an RGB signal, but a scrunched PAL version of the signal? Or am I not understanding this?

I would expect any game that loads under the PAL setting, to send a fullscreen image, in RGB. But they're all bordered, forcing me to revert to NTSC mode.

I'm confused regarding this. Were they perhaps running in PAL50? I can force emulators to run in PAL60, though they actually look not so hot (I'm gonna get my Xbox out tonight, since I run that in NTSC mode through an RGB SCART, and it's divine).

Is it possible to patch individual Wii games to run in PAL/RGB, but fullscreen? Patch them to be region-free perhaps?


S-VIDEO thoughts
The info about the S-vid pins explains a lot. I discovered my TV can accept SVHS. I'd never tried it before, so I put the Wii's SCART cable in the second socket - lo and behold, the SVHS channel lights up. Except it's washed out and looks really bad. Worse than an RF signal.

I take it I need to mod this Wii SCART cable (cost me £5), and then it will send the correct S-Vid signal to my TV, and everything will look hunky dorey in NTSC mode?

If so, a colleague has a soldering iron I can use! Can anyone hook me up with some schematics?

EDIT:
So basically I need to resolder the following:

Pin 15 must to Pin 20
Pin 11 must go to Pin 15




Or, which cable should I buy off eBay to guarantee me the correct SVHS signal going into the second SCART slot on my TV? Because this looks like my best bet!

[Link83]

You switched it to PAL-M for Brazil?! Glad you managed to fix it anyway

Have you switched the Wii to 480i 60Hz? By default the PAL Wii System Menu selects 576i 50Hz output, you need to change it in the Wii settings to 480i 60Hz, you should then get full screen in Wii games.

I am not sure if this video setting affects Virtual Console games or not(?) Thats assuming you bought the games on the US Virtual Console shop of course, as the PAL Virtual Console is pretty much 50Hz only which is one of the key reasons why many people import NTSC Wii consoles (or used to change their shop region, although I believe this isnt possible anymore?)

Just so you know, RGB is not strictly NTSC or PAL, although it is capable of carrying the differing resolutions from each region (480i 60Hz, 576i 50Hz, etc)

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You have the pins correct for S-Video However if you swap the wires that Scart cable will only be suitable for S-Video from then on - unless you fit a switch (Which I have just realised would actually need to be a 'triple pole, triple throw' switch, not DPDT, in order to disconnect/reconnect the Composite Video line aswell)

I dont know why your TV would light up as showing an S-Video input. If you have connected a standard Wii RGB Scart cable to the second scart socket (AV2) you usually would only be able to see the Composite picture only - nothing more (It depends on the model of TV though as to which Scart sockets supports what inputs)

A quick search on eBay shows quite a few results for Wii S-Video cables:-

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/__Wii-S-Video_W0QQ_nkwZWiiQ20SQ2dVideoQQQ5ftrkparmsZ65Q253A12Q257C66Q253A2Q257C39Q253A1Q257C72Q253A1683QQ_dmptZUKQ5fVideoGamesQ5fVideoGameAccessoriesQ5fVideoGameAccessoriesQ5fJNQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQ_sopZ15QQ_scZ1

Personally if you wanted to try S-Video I would buy one of these and then use an S-Video to Scart adaptor which looks like this:-

http://www.newmp3technology.com/prodimages/scartnew.jpg

(Unless your TV already has a direct S-Video input!)

Then plug it into the second Scart socket (AV2) Although dont forget that the PAL Wii doesnt support S-Video so you would need to turn it back into an NTSC Wii in order to use S-Video.

[Sketcz]

Thanks for the answers!

Have you switched the Wii to 480i 60Hz? By default the PAL Wii System Menu selects 576i 50Hz output, you need to change it in the Wii settings to 480i 60Hz, you should then get full screen in Wii games.

Aha! But wouldn't these settings only be viewable if my Wii's region has been changed to PAL?

Everything in the system is currently NTSC, and I've read the following:

AREA setting: Used to determine which region the System Menu should be--normally the cause of full bricks.

Wouldn't I need to change everything to PAL then?

For the moment I think I'll look in to buying a new cable (or modding my old one). I mostly play NTSC games, so S-Video seems more logical than trying to patch everything into PAL just for the sake of RGB.

[Papercut]

Yeah, the 60Hz option is the answer, some stuff will be running at 50Hz by default. This will depend on the game, and probably lie in Nintendo API defaults, as you'll be running stuff that doesn't expect RGB in the first place, and isn't likely to play that nicely.

It probably would be possible to hardware hack the Wii to enable RGB similarly to the Cube's component cable, whereby the NTSC Wii doesn't realise RGB has been enabled, rather than switching it in software. It would be really horrible to implement though.

As mentioned NTSC implies frame rate and colour sub-carrier frequency, the latter doesn't apply to RGB. It is just RGB, at 50 or 60Hz.

You could try changing the system menu to UK momentarily and enable 60Hz option, but I haven't tried this myself, not sure what the method would be. You should be able to do this independently of the disk region, which would be worth testing, and then switch back to US system menu, and see if that setting persists.

Otherwise, as you are saying, s-video is probably the best option. Not worth the pain in my opinion, unless enabling 60Hz gets most things working.

[Bada Bing!]

What kind of TV do you have and why haven't you considered Component?