Bond 22 named: Quantum of Solace

[abigsmurf]

The thing with Bond gadgets, it that it's always been stuff that's on the edge of possible with tech at the time. Things that were around, but not in tech that small.

The lack of gadgets wasn't the main problem with QoS though. It was mostly poor structure and plotting. You need to feel there's a real reason when bond jets off from one place to the next.

[noobish hat]

No chemistry between Bond and the women, who were Generic. A shame after the last one.

Wasn't that the point though? It wouldn't have made sense to me if the whole movie was about avenging

->Open Spoiler<-

eva's death

but at the same time he was getting close to another woman. Also isn't it Bond's character that he doesn't have chemistry with women, he just shags them. And that limey who came to arrest Bond was freaking hot (until she got all dressed up), so just go with it man.

[Matt]

I didn't just say no chemistry, but also that the women were Generic. Which they were. The revenge aspect should have had more substance, drawing parallels between the main woman and Bond.

You expect all women to fall for Bond, that's his character! Plus they

->Open Spoiler<-

did kiss at the end

but there were no sparks, no interest. Maybe that was the point as you say.

[noobish hat]

Well yes, in my opinion it worked out prefectly. I didn't want him to get it off with the main woman because it would ruin the story. But when that limey appeared I turned to my friend and told him I was going to walk out of the cinema if Bond didn't nail her. Having said that, I think the main woman, as well as the emphasis on the cars, the car chases, the product placement and all that bollox made it feel a bit too close to one of the brosnan bonds. Still awesome overall though, just had some plot problems (which is a shame because I was hoping for Casino Royale but with a tighter plot).

[Dazzyman]

Just got back from seeing it thought it was best bond yet again. Full of action all the way thru it and great fights and scenes. Bourne is a little lost boy compared to Bond and his utter aggresion in his face when he is fighting is mint. Didnt have any issues with the quick fight cuts I could make out what was going on fine stuffs been done like that for years since Leathal Weapon 1 Bourne didnt invent that.

Stuff the stupid gimicky gadgets and flashy cars and the camp bad guys Bonds grown up thank god and I also liked the way their was no pervy Bond scene with young women. Gets in job done no fanfare over it so we dont have to go back to a letcherous Bond of before that womanises everything in sight.

Great to see Judy Dench being used more than a office chair as well.

[jezzace]

I thought it was a bit crap really. Anyone else remember when Bond used to actually spy on people? If I was M i'd want to fire him too for the amount of times he has to shoot his way out of a situation.

Its summed up in a scene at the end when the girl does all this stealthy acrobatic stuff to sneak into the hotel, and then right after, Bond just jumps on a car, kills everybody and blows up the building. Its ridiculous and sadly reminded me of the worst bits of the Brosnan era. Daniel Craig is an excellent Bond but they need to put him in a better film.

[Dazzyman]

Its Bond at the start of his career though thats the whole point of it. He hasnt matured yet has only just got 007 status and is on a vengance gig because of Vespa. Its also the reason why their was no real intrest in this film to do with Bond girls as he is too raw for it. Its showing already that hes a use em and loose em bloke because he doesnt ever want to go thru the same thing again.

His heart has been broken and he goes off the rails because of it Both films are really just one giant film you even get the Bond with the gun at the end of the second film with the gun barrel and the music so as time goes on we will see a slight shift in what Bond does. Its the reason their building up regarding the secret conglomerate and no doubt its Mr Big for another film. They have now basically set Bond up for what he will become from these two films.

I do think the days of sat around talking for the majority of Bond and the big scene at the beginning and end is over though as times have moved on. You just dont get many old fashioned spy movies like that anymore even Jack Ryan fell on its arse when they tried to take that back.

The only thing I didnt like about the film was the title track I thought it was dreadfull one of worst Bond tracks Ive ever heard.

[Brad]

8/10 - Pretty sweet I thought.
I was never a big Bond fan but this and Casino were great.

[nightstalker100]

Its Bond at the start of his career though thats the whole point of it. He hasnt matured yet has only just got 007 status and is on a vengance gig because of Vespa. Its also the reason why their was no real intrest in this film to do with Bond girls as he is too raw for it. Its showing already that hes a use em and loose em bloke because he doesnt ever want to go thru the same thing again.

His heart has been broken and he goes off the rails because of it Both films are really just one giant film you even get the Bond with the gun at the end of the second film with the gun barrel and the music so as time goes on we will see a slight shift in what Bond does. Its the reason their building up regarding the secret conglomerate and no doubt its Mr Big for another film. They have now basically set Bond up for what he will become from these two films.

I do think the days of sat around talking for the majority of Bond and the big scene at the beginning and end is over though as times have moved on. You just dont get many old fashioned spy movies like that anymore even Jack Ryan fell on its arse when they tried to take that back.

The only thing I didnt like about the film was the title track I thought it was dreadfull one of worst Bond tracks Ive ever heard.

I've heard this rationale from several people defending the film but i dont swallow it as to the reason why he's deviod of any actual skills that could be considered espionage.

But that what was only small part of the problem, my biggest gripes were there was very little explanation as to why bond was making these perigrinations to various locales and the fact that the film was largely a string of one non sensical fight/chase after the other that offered very little substantiation.

This goes back to an original criticism of the chase on the rooftops at the beginning. They could have cut that out and have bond catch up with him immediately and kill him - the impact on plot development would have been the same. But they drew it out into a silly chase that smacked of action just for action's sake.

Rant over.

Roll on the next installment.

[Matt]

So they could cut out the action and skip straight to the culmination of the sequence - that could be said for everything!

"Why bother going in to the Death Star when they just blow it up from outside later on?"

Bond actually does a lot "espionage" stuff this film. He's using his brain, following the trail wherever it leads - almost despite himself in fact, as he kills most leads before getting any information; which by the end of the film he's stopped doing, showing character development and growth as a "spy".

He trails people well. When

->Open Spoiler<-

the chick shoots at him in the car, he lets her go so he can track her. Then uses some spy skills to get the phone number of Number Two and track him via his phone. He pulls off more spy skills later as he lets the opera meeting go ahead and gets photos of some participants by using his brain.

etc etc. If anything, he's doing so much, going from lead to lead with almost zero exposition, I think some people are having trouble making the links Bond is making and don't follow the movie.

If it is a series of action sequences, that's because it's such a tightly focused script, it strips away things to their bare minimum; it's a Bond film that assumes the audience has the intelligence to keep up.

[nightstalker100]

So they could cut out the action and skip straight to the culmination of the sequence - that could be said for everything!

"Why bother going in to the Death Star when they just blow it up from outside later on?"

Bond actually does a lot "espionage" stuff this film. He's using his brain, following the trail wherever it leads - almost despite himself in fact, as he kills most leads before getting any information; which by the end of the film he's stopped doing, showing character development and growth as a "spy".

He trails people well. When

->Open Spoiler<-

the chick shoots at him in the car, he lets her go so he can track her. Then uses some spy skills to get the phone number of Number Two and track him via his phone. He pulls off more spy skills later as he lets the opera meeting go ahead and gets photos of some participants by using his brain.

etc etc. If anything, he's doing so much, going from lead to lead with almost zero exposition, I think some people are having trouble making the links Bond is making and don't follow the movie.

If it is a series of action sequences, that's because it's such a tightly focused script, it strips away things to their bare minimum; it's a Bond film that assumes the audience has the intelligence to keep up.

Several reviews have pointed out how we rarely know how or why Bond is doing what he is, or going where he is.

I'm glad i'm not the only one who lacks the "intelligence" to keep up.

[Matt]

I'm not insulting you. I'm simply suggesting the film does require you to join the dots, and if people are having trouble, maybe the script is actually too lean.

I maintain that the links from scene to scene, clue to clue exist and everything you need to know is in the film. It's quite easy to miss them, it move at such a pace.

What parts didn't make sense to you? I'm not looking to sound condescending there in the slightest, I'm curious to know.

[Dazzyman]

I agree Chain. Its very intelligent for a Bond film it doesnt hold your hand in what Bond is thinking either till very late on in the second film and theirs some things their in the second film that if you hadnt watched the first one recently your going to miss. Same with the plot they dont go into massive detail about it but when you strip it back its very basic of what its about they even say its the most important resource in the world and why their doing it. He moves to these locations because of that so it all makes sense as its all the lead from the intial mark contact.

I never said Bond hasnt the capabilities to be into espionage though just that he is a angry man on a vengange gig nightstalker100. Once he finds them he just goes in guns blazing. The espionage stuff leading up to finding them is their its cut right back and the finding out of who they are is very cleverly done and effortless. He is ex SAS so would have been trained for all that. You see him do it but its short (ie the camera scene) in a normal bond one of those scenes alone they could have made it into a 30min get in and hide scene and get back out. It doesnt need it nowadays and instead it concentrates on the action after. Again regarding the plot of him even when he knows he should back off abit he doesnt. Its the same with finding people, in this that was really clever and seamless for the initial mark.

You dont need the fancy gimmicks you just need a camera and upload facility to find out who they are on the database. Every mobile phone can be tracked so they dont need ellaborate tracking devices etc... Basically now you see Bond after he has tracked them and what he does next instead of all of it leading up to finding them which has shifted it from a spy thriller back to a action film again which how Bond started. Bond invented the big action scenes but everyone else caught up and it has to do the same and have more.

People just want more nowadays. Bond when it was out up to the 70s their wasnt the big scenes like that in films but in 80s onwards it became the norm and if it didnt change I dont think it would have lasted much longer as Die Another day was terrible and from what Austin Powers shows its pretty much turned into a parody later on. Im glad to see that the films what have taken from Bond Bond has taken parts off them and reclaimed back the action film title from the old days.

Whats made me laugh last night though was the game of this the title track is much better lol

[jezzace]

Nah, I don't buy that. Any film where I have to join the dots is just bad storytelling, maybe because they weren't sure themselves since they started filming without a finished script. Bond spying in this film seems to consist of him sitting on a bike staring at the bad guys for 15 minutes.

->Open Spoiler<-

Film exec: So the hot chick has just sneaked into the enemy base using stealthy acrobatics, how does superspy James Bond get in?
Other Film exec: er...he jumps on a car, shoots all the passengers, then he shoots everyone else in the garage accidently setting off an explosion which causes a huge chain reaction resulting in the destruction of the entire base and rendering the hot chicks stealthy action pointless.
Film exec: Really? Doesn't sound very spylike.
Other Film exec: Well, er, he's not a spy yet is he? Still learning and all that?
Film exec: Fair enough, now wheres my cash.

Bond still learning just doesn't hold for me and his character arc goes from Angry Bond to Slightly less angry bond. Plus who ever watched Bond for character development anyway? It seems I'm in a minority so I reckon I probably went in wanting or expecting something different from you guys. And to be fair I didn't love Casino Royale so I might have been a bit negative from the start, but this film is just dumb to me.

[abigsmurf]

There's a key difference between good and bad films that make you join the dots.

A good film has the audience thinking about how the plot is playing out. A bad film wants the audience to join the dots when it isn't interesting enough for them to do so or they shouldn't have to.

The plot isn't complex nor is it presented in a way that's just complex. He just keeps going from place to place with very little justification and everywhere he goes, he knows exactly the right place to be without having to do any actual spy work.