Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Blu-Ray Best Of The Best - for discussing releases only

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by Lyris View Post
    I've not seen it yet, how does it look Angry?
    Well on the whole I’m pleased with the disc. I knew there were two ways they could have gone in striking the HD master for this one so I suppose it has met my expectations in one way or another. The faults evident are not those of the encode/master, but the source.

    I saw the film twice theatrically at the BFI IMAX so I’m familiar with all the digital manipulation the 35mm footage went through for that version, and much of that is evident in the Blu-ray (as rather than go to the 35mm source itself for the 35mm footage here it seems as if the whole thing has come from an IMAX internegative). What this means of course is that the sharpening and edge enhancement is therefore present, but it’s quite sporadic and – I think – random enough and not severe enough as to be seriously distracting. That’s really where the faults lie rather than it looking (to use an irritating and overused term) “waxy” with the grain being sucked out…etc.

    The first indication I had that the Blu-ray’s HD master had been struck from the IMAX interneg was when I saw the Warner logo as it has the same jagged edge of noise reduction running down the side of the W that caught my eye when I saw it theatrically, and I spotted little things like that on Friday night when I wasn't even looking for them. I found the sharpening to 35mm scenes at its most noticable when Joker has his meeting with the mob as certain shots (mostly medium shots) look a little “digital” - particularly with people’s hair it’s got got that effect similar to what you see when you boost sharpness on your display settings beyond recommended levels. My eyes are better at seeing things like this than edge halos (which I don't tend to notice unless I look for them, or they are so severe as to be unmissable). No digital manipulation here has robbed the image of a filmlike quality though. The sharpening and noise reduction doesn't suddenly render shots to look as if they've been captured on video/data.

    I’ve given up on AVS though. They just don't know how to pick their battles, and even when they do they can't work out how to do anything constructive with their criticism. A friend told me to check out their “Dark Knight Picture Quality Issues” thread, which is thirteen pages and counting, with only about five people posting who actually own the disc. The usual suspects there just drive me to the point of insanity now as you’d think this was a Gangs of New York like atrocity. Is Dark Knight perfect? Nope. Sharpening and EE? Yup, but it's not constant and there’s a lot to account for due to all the factors of the movie’s post production workflow. I knew using the IMAX IN was likely to be the route they went for the Blu-ray as soon as we knew the disc was going to reflect the aspect ratio switching (the optimal way would have been to master the 35mm footage from the 35mm internegative, then cut in the re-framed IMAX footage from an IMAX interneg source. Warner will probably have a second HD master used to strike the DVD from and for HDTV broadcast that will have come from the 2.40:1 35mm IN so when it’s been broadcast on TV there ought to be room for comparison).

    On the subject of the ratio switching I’m actually pleased how well it worked at home. If you have a light controlled room and the contrast ratio your display device effectively renders “black bars” invisible against the black bezel of your display and/or darkness of your surroundings then the effect of the image opening up still works well (though naturally without the truly breathtaking effect it had at IMAX venues). The 1.78 cropping wasn’t as bad as I expected either, though is a little tight during the opening scene in the bank. As it was in IMAX venues, if you’re captivated by the film itself your brain eventually tunes out the black bars disappearing and re-appearing. Scope screen owners could probably just about get away with running the whole movie through an anamorphic lens without completely destroying the framing of shots (it'll look a little tight though as the 35mm/DLP release didn't simply have every IMAX shot matted top and bottom, but some of those shots had to be optically re-framed to maintain composition).

    Outside of the sharpening issues I think it is quite similar to the Batman Begins encode (despite higher average bitrate on the sequel). Comparisons can only go so far though as the approach to the lighting was a little different this time around – but much on the disc still accurately reflects the look of anamorphic photography that had a photochemical finish to my eyes. The (naturally) sharpest 35mm scenes that caught my eye theatrically remain the sharpest 35mm scenes on the Blu-ray (Joker’s interrogation scene) so - again - whilst not perfect I find the encode is pretty honourable to the look of the film in my opinion.
    Last edited by Angry the Clown; 24-11-2008, 12:56.

    Comment


      I agree that problems reported on AVS Forum can snowball out of control. And I've not seen the disc yet, but it is incredibly disappointing that like with Batman Begins, the picture detail - in some areas, it would seem - is worse on the BD than it was on a downloadable trailer.

      But as you say, it seems that the problem is at the DI stage rather than a problem at the compression stage. Regardless, if I was a fan of this film, I'd feel let down.

      Comment


        Quick question - is the old release of Casino Royale the same as the new one in terms of picture quality?

        Comment


          Originally posted by Lyris View Post
          I agree that problems reported on AVS Forum can snowball out of control. And I've not seen the disc yet, but it is incredibly disappointing that like with Batman Begins, the picture detail - in some areas, it would seem - is worse on the BD than it was on a downloadable trailer.

          But as you say, it seems that the problem is at the DI stage rather than a problem at the compression stage. Regardless, if I was a fan of this film, I'd feel let down.
          Well neither Begins or Dark Knight had straight DI?s. Nolan and Wally Pfister do not care for them, so both (or rather all of Begins and the 35mm scenes from Knight) were 35mm anamorphic with photo chemical finishes. This workflow in itself - as I have argued in the past - does contribute to an image not looking as sharp with the Begins disc as many think it should have looked, and some shots are similar on the Knight disc but only to a degree since ? as I wrote ? the approach to lighting the sequel was different to that of its predecessor. Dark Knight, despite its title, is actually a lot lighter than Begins was visually and on that basis I think many would consider the Dark Knight BD more satisfying in the image department.

          The IMAX version of The Dark Knight did actually get a partial DI. The 35mm material was scanned at 4k, and the IMAX material at 8k and then conformed in the digital realm. Colour timing was done photochemically prior to scanning however so the DI was really only used to conform the footage and to apply the noise reduction and sharpening to the 35mm material via IMAX?s DMR process, which might as well be called DNR as that is what they do to try and help 35mm hold up better on an 8 story screen.

          The comparisons with the trailer are, I think, to a degree rather unfair ? if only from the perspective of the colour and contrast differences. Trailers (an this goes for the initial version of the Dark Knight prologue that hit IMAX cinemas last Dec and the Begins Blu-ray too) rarely carry the final colour timing of the finished film. I take it you?re referring to the AVS comparison of the parade scene. That?s definitely one of the most problematic shots, but my issue is AVS would make you think the entire scene looks like that when in fact that shot lasts for a few seconds before cutting to another shot that isn?t as severe or has been pretty much untouched. That?s the thing about this disc. The sharpening is ? more often then not ? pretty random. I watched the movie again last night and still find the worst examples to be Joker?s meeting with the mob, and also the scenes of the ferries towards the end. Again though, these are scenes where one shot looks OK, then another is sharpened, than back to it looking OK?etc. Outside of those two sequences I?d say the scenes in Bruce?s underground bunker suffer the most as well, and elsewhere just random shots here and there.

          I think (heck, I know) you personally will pick up on the flaws of the disc instantly (and frequently) as you?re exceptionally well trained to spot this sort of thing. This definitely isn?t a case of image manipulation being done to give the HD image more ?pop? and appeal to the masses though. It?s just a case of flaws being an unfortunate by-product of the HD master being struck from the IMAX internegative. The closest disc I can think of that the Dark Knight sharpening reminds me of is the Blu-ray of The Mummy where it hasn?t so much been robbed of a filmlike quality, but does have that sense of someone jacking up the sharpness setting on your display.

          I think the Begins disc is more satisfying if only because it presents more of a consistent looking image compared to the Dark Knight disc. I?ve said before that if forced to choose between slight softening of an image versus artificial sharpening I?d go with the former every time. I?m a huge fan of the film and held out some hope that Warner would extract the 35mm scenes from the 35mm source and conform it with IMAX scenes from the IMAX source for the HD master but again, I always knew that the most likely outcome was the whole thing being struck from the IMAX interneg. If forced to break things down into numbers and letters I?d probably deem the Dark Knight disc 85% good, and 15% questionable. If I had to grade it I?d give it a B- which is a pity for the biggest film of the year. At least it?s one of those movie?s Warner will whore time and time again in the future so one hopes there will be a window for improvement some day.

          Comment


            On a separate subject? has anyone used Movietyme?s free shipping option since they revised it (to 7-21 days)? I?ve got Wall-E, Nightmare Before Christmas and Shawshank Redemption coming via this method and they?re all MIA? (with Wall-E having shipped first two weeks ago now).

            I know I am within the 21 day boundary with all of them but usually the stated period is a safety net for the retailer and I?ve rarely had anything from the States take more than ten days. It seems whatever method they use for free shipping now sends your discs to the moon and back. I could tolerate them upping their prices in the current financial climate, but downgrading the speed of free shipping and charging ?1 for the typical delivery we used to get from the free service struck me as a little cheeky.

            Comment


              Originally posted by cutmymilk View Post
              Quick question - is the old release of Casino Royale the same as the new one in terms of picture quality?
              Yep, not that you could improve on it too much - despite it's age it's still reference quality whichever way you look at it.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Angry the Clown View Post
                On a separate subject… has anyone used Movietyme’s free shipping option since they revised it (to 7-21 days)? I’ve got Wall-E, Nightmare Before Christmas and Shawshank Redemption coming via this method and they’re all MIA… (with Wall-E having shipped first two weeks ago now).

                I know I am within the 21 day boundary with all of them but usually the stated period is a safety net for the retailer and I’ve rarely had anything from the States take more than ten days. It seems whatever method they use for free shipping now sends your discs to the moon and back. I could tolerate them upping their prices in the current financial climate, but downgrading the speed of free shipping and charging £1 for the typical delivery we used to get from the free service struck me as a little cheeky.
                I'm having the same Wall-e issue but can't advise on the difference in cost : performance sorry.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Daragon View Post
                  Yep, not that you could improve on it too much - despite it's age it's still reference quality whichever way you look at it.
                  Cool, will probably get the old release, then. Not too bothered about the extra discs.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Lyris View Post
                    If I had been the compressionist behind the Japanese DVD of Kill Bill Vol.1, I'd have asked to have my name removed... there is almost no detail left in the image. The improvement on the BD is huge
                    Agreed, the Jap version's picture is plop, but I'm gonna wait for the mythic 'Whole Bloody Affair' before I go Blu on this one though.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Angry the Clown View Post
                      On a separate subject? has anyone used Movietyme?s free shipping option since they revised it (to 7-21 days)? I?ve got Wall-E, Nightmare Before Christmas and Shawshank Redemption coming via this method and they?re all MIA? (with Wall-E having shipped first two weeks ago now).

                      I know I am within the 21 day boundary with all of them but usually the stated period is a safety net for the retailer and I?ve rarely had anything from the States take more than ten days. It seems whatever method they use for free shipping now sends your discs to the moon and back. I could tolerate them upping their prices in the current financial climate, but downgrading the speed of free shipping and charging ?1 for the typical delivery we used to get from the free service struck me as a little cheeky.
                      Having plenty of shipping problems with MT at the moment. Firstly, I paid for a copy of Hellboy 2 to be shipped SDD. A week later, it hadn't arrived and they tried to claim I hadn't paid for SDD and so it had been posted normal post. Two days later a replacement copy arrived.

                      I currently have three discs - Wall E, Kung Fu Panda and Tropic Thunder - MIA. I actually paid ?2 a disc for their expedited shipping, so that was a waste of money!

                      On top of that, another three discs - inc The Dark Knight - only shipped today, having been 'processing' since Saturday.

                      Not too impressed at the minute.

                      Comment


                        dvdslimited is still offering amazing service (always next day for me so far). The only downside is their prices have gone up considerably since their site redesign...

                        Comment


                          Oh don't say Movietyme's orders are up the spout, I'm waiting for both TDK and Wall-E.

                          I was a bit slow in ordering so they were only posted yesterday. Fingers crossed by the sounds of things.

                          Comment


                            I was going to order The Dark Knight from MovieTyme, as it went on their Same Day Dispatch service today, but they've added £2 to the price now it's SSD. I said I'm not paying over £20 for TDK and I stand by it.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Spatial101 View Post
                              Oh don't say Movietyme's orders are up the spout, I'm waiting for both TDK and Wall-E.

                              I was a bit slow in ordering so they were only posted yesterday. Fingers crossed by the sounds of things.
                              Got my Wall-e yesterday. About 8 days in total I think it was from despatch to delivery.

                              Comment


                                I'm waiting for Kung-Fu Panda from Movietyme at the moment, despatched on the 14th. First time they've made me wait this long for a new release.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X