The Raid

[Neon Ignition]

Thinking back I preferred the likes of House of Flying Daggers, Crouching Tiger etc more but then they're a different type of film. I think the problem for me was just that this is so quick to get started that theres little to no character building, just a lot of generic ops so I don't care what happens to any of them. The action is well put together but I didnt feel invested. Id have happily watched a longer cut with more exposition.

[prinnysquad]

That's probably 90% of martial arts films. The story is a loose framework from which to hang fights. You watch for the fights, not to get all Dear Deidre with the main bod. They're often shallower than a puddle of piss.

Wuxias like Crouching Tiger, and older Taiwanese stuff, are an entirely different beast.

[bash]

Think of this as a porno where the main purpose is to get to next "action" scene!

[QualityChimp]

CTN, I understand if you didn't like the film because of the reasons you posted later, but your original complaint was that it's a fad and fussed over. I think you're getting confused between hype and a good reception. All the talk of the new Batman film and Prometheus are hype because nobody's been able to review them yet, one can only see the trailers and get very excited about the potential they show.

All the quotes I put in my initial post were from actual reviews, not previews, from all around the world. It's a little bit unfair to kick back against it just because other people have enjoyed it and reccomended it!

I will admit I'm just as guilty for loving bands, for example, in the past, and wanting everybody else to know about them and get into them, but when they get famous and succesful, I feel I've lost that notion that they're "my" band. I've only started reading some Stephen King novels because I've always been a bit snobbish about reading books that zillions of other people have, but I've changed my attitude and started reading them instead of cutting my nose to spite my face. I'm not saying that's what you've done here, I'm just saying I relate to the attitude of opposing what's popular.

At the end of the day though, it's a martial arts film, on at the cinema, from Indonesia, filmed on a shoestring budget, directed by a Welshman, with subtitles and up against the mainstream summer blockbusters! How much more against the grain can you get?

As for your later points, I found Crouching Tiger was brilliant, exciting, beautiful and brought wuxia movies to a new audience, but also had a tendency to be a bit plodding at times. Flying Daggers was lots of forgettable CGI and was no where near as good as Crouching Tiger.

Don't forget, The Raid was planned to be a much bigger prison gang movie before Gareth Evans struggled to get financial backing and went back to the drawing board to make a movie for a lot less money in a lot less time. This film feels like a lot more than the $1.1 million it was made for. Even Crouching Tiger had a budget of $17 million, which buys you a lot more script writers and time to develop characters. Compare The Raid's budget to the other summer blockbusters:
Prometheus - $120 - 130 Million
The Avengers - $220 Million
The Dark Knight Rises - $250 Million

Even the girly flick out this week, "What To Expect When You're Expecting" cost $40 Million!

I'm rambling, but my point is, The Raid is an absolutely brilliant film, and even more so when you consider all the things that it's up against that I've listed above.

You know I appreciate all your movie news posts, CTN, and I'm not having a go, I'm just sad you didn't enjoy it as much as most other people seemed to and not because they're seeing the Emperor's new clothes, but because they genuinely enjoyed it.

I'm sorry if I over-hyped it for you!

Bash - I think you're onto something there! Can you imagine the "action" scenes being filmed in shakycam to make them more exciting make the viewer feel part of the scene?! I don't think it would be received too well!

[QualityChimp]

On a lighter note, here are some great homages to The Raid:

[NW2013]

Fancied seeing this but it's only on at 9.30pm or 10-something pm at my local cinemas. I'll be waiting for online/dvd/blu-ray release then.

[cavalcade]

Hark at Grandad here!

[Neon Ignition]

I genuinely do feel its a good film and enjoyable, worth people seeing at some point if they've an interest
I just didnt feel it was an amazing one or one Ill be in a rush to see again anytime soon now that Ive seen it the once.

[bash]

Saw this last night and dragged my 2 cousins along for the ride. Unfortunately the screen we saw it on was a smaller Vue 4k type screen and we were sitting quite close so a lot of the fast moving action was a little disorientating at times, I'll definetly be watching this again on blu hopefully.

We all thought it was great although I agree with one of my cousins that towards the end some scenes were a little repetitive. Its like a mix of Hard Boiled and Ong Bak, however one thing Ong did nicely I feel was to include other martial arts in the film. Now I'm certainly no fight expert but it appeared to my eyes that everyone in this film who knew how to fight was a practitioner of Silat and nothing else. The gun acton is nothing new but it does border on the spectacular at times. If nothing else it was very loud and violent with a few thrills and spills. The best thing out of this is the star Iko Uwais, he has real vulnerability and screen charisma. He's no "Bruce Lee, F everyone up in the room" He's more a mix of Jackie Chan in that he will receive more than a few hits and Tony Jaa in his ruthless and necessary efficiency at finishing mans off.

Looking forward to the sequel and also slagging off the american remake

[rmoxon]

Saw this last night and dragged my 2 cousins along for the ride. Unfortunately the screen we saw it on was a smaller Vue 4k type screen and we were sitting quite close so a lot of the fast moving action was a little disorientating at times, I'll definetly be watching this again on blu hopefully.

We all thought it was great although I agree with one of my cousins that towards the end some scenes were a little repetitive. Its like a mix of Hard Boiled and Ong Bak, however one thing Ong did nicely I feel was to include other martial arts in the film. Now I'm certainly no fight expert but it appeared to my eyes that everyone in this film who knew how to fight was a practitioner of Silat and nothing else. The gun acton is nothing new but it does border on the spectacular at times. If nothing else it was very loud and violent with a few thrills and spills. The best thing out of this is the star Iko Uwais, he has real vulnerability and screen charisma. He's no "Bruce Lee, F everyone up in the room" He's more a mix of Jackie Chan in that he will receive more than a few hits and Tony Jaa in his ruthless and necessary efficiency at finishing mans off.

Looking forward to the sequel and also slagging off the american remake

Iko Uwais is good yeah. If you haven't seen it I recommend the previous film that both he and the director of this worked on "Merantau". It's not as good as The Raid but its still an enjoyable film with some great fight scenes.

You also should be able to pick the DVD up for practically nothing. I think it cost me ?1.98 from amazon.

[QualityChimp]

I re-watched Merantau yesterday and still really like it. It's quite a contrast to The Raid and tells a very different story. Iko Uwais' character is on a spiritual journey to the city and gets dragged into trouble when trying to do the honourable thing.

It's full of bright, strong colours to The Raid's washed-out and gritty early dawn blues. Iko's character doesn't really want to kill anybody so although there's fighting, it's mainly to provide a quick exit, whereas The Raid has some brutal takedowns and is a lot more on the offence.

There's a lot more character development too, so you might want to check this out, CTN! I think it's about 35 minutes before the first proper fight scene!

I prefer this to Ong-Bak, personally, as I think the character of Yuda is much more likeable than Tony Jaa's "Ting", even though they're telling a similar story. Plus there's no annoying "comedy" sidekick in this. In fact, there's a nice sequence in the deleted scenes where the young boy he protects sneaks into school and notes down all the maths questions using a mirror and then reverses them at home. It's a shame that didn't make the final cut as it shows he wants to better himself.

Of course, it's all about the stunts and fighting and it does a great job of it. The finale is great, but there's some painful-looking stunts on the way.

It's well worth checking out, especially as it's such a bargain price!

[QualityChimp]

There's a nice article on Empire with Gareth Evans' suggestions of ten films to watch before The Raid. They're not direct influences or comparisons, but feature some elements that he put into it.

http://www.empireonline.com/features/ten-films-to-watch-before-the-raid

1. Fist Of Fury (1972)
It?s Bruce Lee?s best film, without a doubt. Because he plays it quiet in The Big Boss (1971) for the first 30-40 minutes - he doesn?t swing a punch - you don?t get that feeling of power. In Fist Of Fury he?s like a maniac; he?s off the leash and there?s something dangerous about his character. His character is unhinged ? very violent. I watched the dojo scene over and over and over again.

2. Enter The Dragon (1973)
There?re moments in almost every Bruce Lee film when the rage take over. When Bruce kills someone brutally, you can see this anguished look on his face. The best example is in Enter The Dragon when he crushes O?Hara?s (Robert Wall) ribcage. There?s this look of regret that he?s become the same monster that he was fighting against. We decided to do a subtle take on that when Iwo (Uwais) pulls a guy?s neck onto the doorframe. There?s a little look in his eyes when he acknowledges what he?s done. It?s such a brutal way to kill someone. That was our Bruce Lee moment.

3. Dragon Lord (1981)
The biggest Jackie Chan influence on The Raid was Dragon Lord. At the end there?s an incredible two-on-one fight, where it?s Jackie Chan and Mars against the big boss, Hwang In-Shik. It?s just brutal. They?re completely overpowered. By the end they?re just throwing their bodies at him. We decided to take that basic structure and add Silat and more complex choreography.

4. Drunken Master (1978)
It?s Jackie Chan?s vulnerability that makes him such a likeable character on screen. He takes enough of a beating that you?re never quite sure if he?s going to make it or not. That was one of the things that we riff on in The Raid, so we had a moment where Iko jumps back in through the window after he?s just fallen two storeys. As he walks down the corridor if anyone comes out and attacks him you know he?s done; that?s it.

5. Sonatine (1993)
The Raid?s [pacing] comes strongly from Japanese cinema ? from Takeshi Kitano or Takashi Miike ? and I wanted to riff on their black humour. A lot of our film plays into Yakuza films. Hana-Bi and Sonatine are the two main ones for me: Hana-Bi has a lot more heart but Sonatine is ice-cold. The nihilism is amazing. There?s a scene in a bar where they?re shooting at each other and no-one is taking cover. It?s such bull****! There?s no way that would ever happen, but you believe it because it?s presented in a hyper-real way. That was something that I loved in the violence of Kitano?s films

6. Leon (1994)
Luc Besson is an incredible influence for me - Nikita and Leon are fantastic movies. Leon?s SWAT team attack and that sense of claustrophobia were definitely an influence on The Raid, but if anything it was more of an influence on my first feature, Merantau. There?s a moment where the girl is forcing her little brother to hide in a hole in a wall which we borrowed from the scene where Leon gets Mathilda to climb down to the basement.

7. Die Hard (1988)
It?s one of the best American action movies ever made. It?s on every Christmas at our house ? it?s a tradition. When I knew I was going to make a film set in one building and I was drawing up a list of the films that I wanted to riff on and learn from, Die Hard was always going to be near the top.

8. Assault On Precinct 13 (1976)
I looked at it for structure and pacing ? how much screen time do you allocate to your villain? From Die Hard it?s about learning how it works when it's loud and bombastic; from Assault On Precinct 13 it?s about doing it on a budget. When they?re shooting at the windows [of the precinct], all you see is glass breaking and bits of paper flying up. We thought: ?OK, let?s do the same thing.? When the bad guys were shooting at the SWAT team from below the floorboards, it?s me and my sound guys screaming and shouting in post-production. I was my own foley department!

9. ?Born Free?, MIA (2010)
This made me want to have a SWAT team in The Raid. The concept is pretty out there, but it was more about the shooting style - there?s so much energy to every shot. Whenever anyone from the crew came into the office, within five minutes I?d have them watching this. I haven?t had any offers to do music videos yet but I?m an absolute Nine Inch Nails fanboy.

10. Escape From New York (1981)
I go back and watch John Carpenter films all the time. There?s something in his films that stands the test of time. They?re all about mood and atmospherics; as well as the overwhelming sense of being hunted. There?s a moment in Escape From New York where Kurt Russell?s being chased by all these bad guys and he shoots the wall with a machine gun to weaken it and jumps through. I wanted to riff on that so we had Iko taking an axe an cutting a hole in the floor. I love the Roddy Piper fight in They Live, too. It?s so ridiculous!

[rmoxon]

You know I've never been a fan of Enter The Dragon. Maybe it's becuase it's an American film, I find the fight scenes to be pretty boring. It's only really elevated from being a load of cheesy rubbish by the fact that Bruce Lee was brilliant in everything he was in.

[QualityChimp]

Really?! I love it!

I've been wanting to find time to re-watch it that last few weeks.

So many elements that click with me. The Schiffrin soundtrack, the great mix of characters, the dialogue, the nunchuks, the whoops of destruction and, of course, Bruce Lee.

I don't think the fight scenes are boring, but there's an element of queuing up to get beaten. There's one sequence where one of Han's man is smiling at the sight of Lee beating people up! Cheap extras, you see.

[bash]

My god, ETD is one of the best films ever made!