Star Wars Episode 7

[Dogg Thang]

The planets all look excellent. A huge amount of the design looks excellent.

[buster_broon]

The reality is likely the exact opposite - the Star Wars name and the memory of the originals are probably the only things that stopped those movies from crashing and burning badly.

I see it the complete reverse

the only reason people dislike them is because they have the star wars name and weren't as good as the originals

whereas if they were generic space battle film a, b & c then they wouldn't be as universally slated by lets be honest the geeks, even now im sure the force awakens is being slated by the most die hard geek whereas the mainstream geek is accepting for what it is or they dislike lucas and happy they sold the franchise so only like it to annoy him

nobody can say they are awful movies because there are far worse (in the galaxy ) even liking anything about it even design brings it above the parapet of what a truly awful movie is about

but we all hate different movies which others love, mine are Top Gun, Reservoir dogs & Jackie brown. Now I don't like them but they aren't awful movies - im just not a fan

[Neon Ignition]

Ironically the prequels have visually aged quite badly. I'm not really a fan of the visual style of them either. Certainly the writing, direction and acting is poor across all of them as well. Without a doubt they're carried by the Star Wars name, unbrand them and history wouldn't even remember them.

I can accept that they are a requirement. Ever since the term Episode IV firs appeared they were going to be made but there were a number of ways they could have been handled and they tell a very weak origin tale poorly.

Episode I should have skipped Anakins childhood entirely, that and his daft heavy handed virgin birth origin. He should have stayed with his mother until he was a teenager but lost his own father or something so he had that uncontrolled anger from the start. That way they could have tapped straight into the Clone War instead of wheel spinning for hours.

It'd make the Padme love story work better as well instead of the creepy tone we have now where he weirdly catches her age up. Ep2 would have been better placed then to show Anakins tug of war between the light and dark side and Obi Wans struggle to keep Anakin off a revenge path. At the end you could have then had Anakin give in to it and the film end on him becoming Vader. Ep3 would then be free to contain all the best bridging elements showing Vader come to terms with the dark side, him against Obi Wan and the downfall of the Jedi as the Empire unfolds amidst the Clone Wars (which could then have been instead of the existing tale of Vaders 'Nooooo!' and the Republic folding in under 5 minutes.

They'll always be there in the canon but I'm glad the new ones have set them aside and mostly ignored what they told us.

[wakka]

Even in terms of the prequels existing as they do as a sort of universe building necessary evil (which I don't agree with - they could've done the same job and been far better films), I find they're a letdown on the back story front too.

Lucas' need to explain as much as he possibly could takes away from the mystery and myth of the original films - and the idea that a mere 30 odd years after the events of RoS, the Jedi are virtually completely forgotten and reduced to one old hermit out in the desert and one other old hermit in a jungle makes very little sense. They don't fit together properly with the original trilogy. There is a great consistency between the original films and Force Awakens which the prequels lacked for me.

[Dogg Thang]

Yep. Did they really achieve anything as an origin story that wasn't told better in several lines in the actual movies? I don't think they did. They just added a whole bunch of stuff that made little sense, such as Vader building C3PO, while telling unfocused stories about no particular main character in no particular main conflict.

For all the things they contributed (and they did), they broke more and didn't really work as basic stories.

Edit: Yeah, as Wakka says, too much of it makes little sense.

[buster_broon]

but I also think force awakens is guilty of that as well

the story itself is the

->Open Spoiler<-

search for luke with a a sidestory of star killer 1 shoehorned in and the whole back story of luke trying to train the new order of jedi and failing then retreating to a remote island I felt was a wee bit lazy

[Dogg Thang]

The conflict and main characters are incredibly clear in the new movie. It's a simple story and it's actually a story.

[buster_broon]

What do you mean about clear?

As a lot of the new characters except Kylo ren are still shrouded in mystery

[Dogg Thang]

Clear as in I have a sense of who the man characters are and what they are trying to achieve at key parts in the movie. Basic story stuff.

[Darwock]

Who said the prequels were a necessary evil? Not in the slightest... they were completely unnecessary. The originals stood on their own for 20 years, and all the prequels achieved was kicking the legs out from under the franchise.

I have thankfully been able to forget them, got the unedited originals on my PC and now pretend they never happened. I haven't felt any need to do the same for TFA, in fact I went back to see it again which is the complete reverse of how I felt about eps 1-3.

I'd even go so far as to say I would welcome a do-over of the first three episodes if Disney wanted to go that way. I doubt the terms of their deal allow that to happen though.

[Dogg Thang]

Would also welcome a do-over. But yeah, can't imagine it would happen. Especially as I imagine the prequel spin-off merchandise has likely done very well.

My eldest girl is all Star Wars mad right now and keeps asking me to show her the prequels. I'm going to have to bite the bullet and show them to her at some point. I can't deny them for much longer. She'll likely enjoy them too but I just hate the knock-on effect they have on the originals.

[buster_broon]

Lol sorry but the last two comments in the thread are absolutely ridiculous

The absolutely extreme - not once have a seen a bad movie and pretended it didn't exist - complete fanboyism which for me negates any argument or debate because there isn't one

I tried my daughter on the phantom menace, thought she should watch them in order and she didn't like it so assumed she didn't like Star Wars which is fine because she loves princesses (not rebel alliance general style princesses however) but she asked to see force awakens because all her close pals went to see it and I took her, she also thought that was rubbish so I guess she doesn't like it but we can try again in 10 years or so with a 9 movie marathon

On other speilberg / Lucas news we sat our daughter down last night and watched raiders of the lost ark and apart from the spiders at the start she absolutely loved it, was engrossed start to finish so tonight we have temple of doom luckily she didn't quite understand what was happening at the end which was my biggest worry

[Dogg Thang]

You write of fanboyism but you're only one over the last couple of pages to try to discount views on reasons other than the content of the movies or the points themselves. Don't fear opposing views - fear is the path to the dark side. If you genuinely disagree with the points, do so. That's totally cool. Trying to dismiss the validity of the views, which you have done twice now, feels like you're really struggling. It's fine to like the prequels. As you rightly pointed out, we like different movies and that's okay. That's normal. Embrace it. Enjoy them. You come out the winner here - we don't gain anything positive by disliking these movies.

[buster_broon]

I hate using that word but I've used it twice under extreme circumstances and I don't think I've been wrong on either thread

Both the statements are ridiculous, but in a way I'm jealous your daughter likes them but let her make her own mind up when you watch them rather than be huffy in the corner telling her how rank they are so she loses interest and if she does like them then don't try and use the force to change her mind or in an extreme circumstance dis-own her

I think the movies are okay, sure as I've said some characters, midiclorianes and the romance are tripe but funny post though but there are loads to like

Everybody has differing opinions which is great and that stimulates debate, yourself and everyone in this thread has stated reasons for liking/disliking some of the movies or what they would do to change them which I accept but then some comments are mentioned it's like WTF!!!!!!!!

[fishbowlhead]

I hate using that word but I've used it twice under extreme circumstances and I don't think I've been wrong on either thread

Both the statements are ridiculous, but in a way I'm jealous your daughter likes them but let her make her own mind up when you watch them rather than be huffy in the corner telling her how rank they are so she loses interest and if she does like them then don't try and use the force to change her mind or in an extreme circumstance dis-own her

I think the movies are okay, sure as I've said some characters, midiclorianes and the romance are tripe but funny post though but there are loads to like

Everybody has differing opinions which is great and that stimulates debate, yourself and everyone in this thread has stated reasons for liking/disliking some of the movies or what they would do to change them which I accept but then some comments are mentioned it's like WTF!!!!!!!!

Star ways will always bring out the rabid fanboy and massive swings of opinion in everyone, sure as the sun will rise and set.

I'm sticking to my guns. I find all the films entertaining to be honest. It's about space ninjas, with space ships, along with whole planets being blown up, all the while a sneaky little man in the background cleaverly manipulates everyone.

It's just fun, hokey, family entertainment.