Films You Have Watched This Week: With a Vengeance

[Dogg Thang]

Didn't work for Pan so seems that perfectly valid reason to whitewash characters didn't really hold up. And if Pan made a fortune, I think few who genuinely cared about diversity would be cool with movies just featuring white people because it's easier to market a movie.

[PaTaito]

Didn't work for Pan so seems that perfectly valid reason to whitewash characters didn't really hold up. And if Pan made a fortune, I think few who genuinely cared about diversity would be cool with movies just featuring white people because it's easier to market a movie.

Is it the fault of the casting dept or rooney mara that the film ended up ****? Would the casting of a relatively unknown native american actress have changed this? It would certainly have made it even less marketable.

The thing is with the tiger lilly role, its native american and as such is not like the many other races where there are bona fide stars to choose from. The studio gambled $275 million on the making of this film so this small liberty can be forgiven in my view.

The fact it didn't do well has no bearing on how star names generally make films more broadly appealing...Ok perhaps they could have used a known child star for pan, and then gone unknown native american for tiger lilly? But perhaps they made the choice for pan very early and needed more stars in the film? Perhaps they auditioned for a native actress and couldn't find someone with the suitable ability?

[Dogg Thang]

Consider that last sentence and take the thought just a little further. Or don't. You have demonstrated exactly where you're at with this and there may be no point.

[Asura]

Never understood the whole boycotting based on the race of a chosen actor...what does it really matter?

Someone once explained this to me in a way I found quite elegant.

"What colour skin did the pharoahs of ancient Egypt have?"

The correct answer is that they were very dark-skinned. They were, after all, north-African kings. However, the immediate image of a "Pharoah" I have when I close my eyes is something out of a 20th-century sword-and-sandal epic, where they were predominantly played by white actors.

That's a direct result of Hollywood's use of white actors distorting our view of history.

The thing is with the tiger lilly role, its native american and as such is not like the many other races where there are bona fide stars to choose from.

Whereas Exodus: Gods and Kings starred a white guy as Moses and a white guy as the Pharoah. Are you going to suggest next that Hollywood doesn't have any good actors of Hebrew descent? Because, well...

The fact of the matter is that Hollywood has white-centric casting, and it is a problem. Representation is important for people, especially kids.

It's far simpler than that. Children are forming their world view based on what they see. If all main characters and heroes are white, that gets filed away as a thing and can negatively affect any child's view of other people (or themselves if they aren't white). When there happens to be a rare non-white character and that character then gets changed into a white person, that's a problem. Diversity in cinema, books and really across all media is very important.

Well said.

Perhaps from a movie studio point of view its more marketable to use a popular actor, and perhaps there isn't many native american options that would give the film that star quality?

In some cases, this may be true - but can't you see that it's a self-perpetuating problem? Ask for more actors "of colour" and you'll see more actors, superior actors, come out of the woodwork - but until there's a demand, you'll always end up seeing the same faces over and over.

[Asura]

But then i don't buy into the theory that children form negative views of race based off these things.

Whoopi Goldberg insists that her career as an actress started the day that she saw "a black lady on television" who "ain't no maid".

[PaTaito]

The correct answer is that they were very dark-skinned. They were, after all, north-African kings. However, the immediate image of a "Pharoah" I have when I close my eyes is something out of a 20th-century sword-and-sandal epic, where they were predominantly played by white actors.

That's a direct result of Hollywood's use of white actors distorting our view of history.

Whereas Exodus: Gods and Kings starred a white guy as Moses and a white guy as the Pharoah. Are you going to suggest next that Hollywood doesn't have any good actors of Hebrew descent? Because, well...

The fact of the matter is that Hollywood has white-centric casting, and it is a problem. Representation is important for people, especially kids.

In some cases, this may be true - but can't you see that it's a self-perpetuating problem? Ask for more actors "of colour" and you'll see more actors, superior actors, come out of the woodwork - but until there's a demand, you'll always end up seeing the same faces over and over.

The elegant explanation isn't all that elegant really. Didn't you primarily learn about different races at school? or rather something from a news report?...A whole other can of worms.


In terms of exodus that whole casting process was just a complete joke. It looked weird, it felt weird, and it clearly had some kind of agenda. Rather a different story to the tiger lilly role...the actors were available in abundance, the film was adult in theme, and the story was supposed to be something based on actual history. A moronic choice all round. Some idiot at the studio obviously made this incorrect call based on what they must perceive to be unpopular in the west at present.

Whoopi Goldberg insists that her career as an actress started the day that she saw "a black lady on television" who "ain't no maid".

Yeah that must have been the 60's...despite people complaining about a small role in a kids film, the world has thankfully come along way since this. I mean another few years back you'd be having quotes about people getting up on buses...

Not so relevant today.

[Asura]

Not so relevant today.

I'm tired, so I'm just going to say I totally and utterly disagree. It's more relevant than ever, and we (as societies, both British and American) need to keep trying if we ever want to be post-racial - because we're not even close right now.

[Dogg Thang]

For movies, the stats are very clear: http://mic.com/articles/123731/4-cha...-is#.Vi4fibBHF And yes, totally with you, Asura, on its importance.

[PaTaito]

I'm not saying there isn't some importance, but i think its being thoroughly overplayed in the case of pan.

What next? Theatre being slammed because peter andre stars as aladdin?

[Neon Ignition]

Goosebumps
Enjoyed it to be honest. It's a lot like Jumanji in concept except swapping the Jungle theme out of the board game for a monster theme out of books. It's light, lively and fairly humourous.

Jumanji
Naturally had to revisit this afterwards. The effects have aged quite a bit but other than that it holds up as well as the key aspect it has that the upcoming reboot can't hope to come close to... Robin... oh Robin...

[randombs]

We watched Jumanji over the weekend as well.

Unfortunately I fell asleep near the end and woke up during the credits but I'm sure the ending was decent enough. I enjoyed the film and it had been so long that I'd forgotten most of it so a lot of it felt more like "oh yeah, that bit!" rather than "I know what's coming..."

I really enjoyed it.

[Asura]

I'm not saying there isn't some importance, but i think its being thoroughly overplayed in the case of pan.

The Pan example is being held up a bit too much, yes, but it isn't about specific examples, rather it's about trends. You have to look at films and film culture in general to see the problems.

When dealing with a boycott, you naturally are forced to nominate specific films. That's just how a boycott works.

Still, this is why I keep coming back to that Exodus movie, as it's a particularly severe example.

[Dogg Thang]

The problem with Pan or any other film is that this doesn't happen in isolation. It is contributing to a far larger problem among a wider pool of movies and media. If you sat down with the casting agents of all these movies, they could probably offer a case as to why they cast the way they did and yet they are still part of a problem.

[Zen Monkey]

Why Has Bodhidharma Left For The East?

An excellent Korean movie that examines Buddhism and the human condition.

[PaTaito]

The problem with Pan or any other film is that this doesn't happen in isolation. It is contributing to a far larger problem among a wider pool of movies and media. If you sat down with the casting agents of all these movies, they could probably offer a case as to why they cast the way they did and yet they are still part of a problem.

I guess we just disagree on the extent of the problem. I respect both your opinions, i just don't agree its this massive issue in every case...pan being the case in point. Exodus was shameful no matter how you look at it.