The Photography Thread

[Gareth C]

I wasn't really talking about simply doing it yourself over letting the camera do it.

I was more talking about the times when you know you want a certain result that the camera, by default, won't help you acheive.

[Gareth C]

but I wouldn't want to waste that much film from guessed exposures.

After a while there is very little guess work involved.

[MartyG]

Hmm - maybe I'm just coming at a different angle - I've done wedding and portrait work for people, and there's no way I'd not meter for that sort of work. I suppose it depends on the subject matter you are shooting.

[Rsdio]

Oh yeah, for something formal like that you'd have to be really consistently accurate before you could trust yourself.. Even then I'd still feel a bit uncomfortable doing it seeing as the photo's are for other people as much as yourself.

I'd just like to learn as much of the process as possible is what I'm saying .

[Gareth C]

Hmm - maybe I'm just coming at a different angle - I've done wedding and portrait work for people, and there's no way I'd not meter for that sort of work. I suppose it depends on the subject matter you are shooting.

Fair enough. I was talking more about "art" photography. Though I know a couple of wedding photographers who shoot all manual for certain shots...again when they are after a specific effect.

[MartyG]

Well I'm no professional, and my exploits in portraits and weddings have been limited to family, friends and colleagues (although I did make a few quid \o/) - so I wouldn't know how things are done in the trade - I just know that the metering in my cameras have always given decent results in those situations.

Weddings really aren't that much fun to photograph, far too much hard work

[Zanza]

I just got into film photography about a month back - purchased myself a Holga to shoot some artsy colour shots on, and then a couple of weeks later I bought a Yashica-A TLR camera (ebay for ?16.50 \o/) mainly for taking black and white stuff.

So far its been going really well. After getting my first Holga film developed at Jessops for an astronomical ?10, I went off and spent ?20 on a developing tank and some chemicals and got busy doing it myself. I shot a black and white film through my Yashica and developed it the same day, the results were fantastic. It doesnt quite seem as complicated as I first thought. The only hard bit was getting the bloody film onto the developing reel in the dark, took me a good 10 minuites. I almost gave up at one point (note to self - buy red light ASAP). Chuffed for my first time anyway, the Yashica I bought seems to be in awesome condition, the lense is undamaged and takes great quality pictures.

Just got back from France today with afew films to develop, so I guess I will finaly get to see my first real results shortly (that arn't my backgarden).

[Crisp_Rapper]

zanza, i need to sort out some way of developing b&w film myself as it supposedly takes 2 weeks from your usual '20 minute' film places... where'd you get the gear from?

[MartyG]

Ihe only hard bit was getting the bloody film onto the developing reel in the dark, took me a good 10 minuites. I almost gave up at one point (note to self - buy red light ASAP).

STOP! Negatives must be handled in the dark.

A red light when processing the negatives will still destroy them.

Development, stop, fixing of prints can be done in darkroom conditions.

[Zanza]

Aye the time it takes them is an absolute joke My film from Jessops took them nearly 3 weeks (even though they quoted me 7-10 days), Damn their eyes!

I was able to get pretty much everything I needed from my local camera shop. I bought a Paterson Super System 4 universal developing tank for ?14.99, Paterson seem to be the most popular manufacturer, and the Super System 4 can be used to develop pretty much any b&w and colour films (35mm, 126, 127, 120 & 220). You can also pick them up on eBay pretty cheap, just search for 'developing tank' and tons should pop up, but I wasn't quite so patient.

The kind of chems you need will depend on what film your developing, for black and white negative 120 I was using Patterson Acutol, Acufix, and Acustop, which were fairly cheap around ?3 a bottle for each. You will also need an accurate thermometer and some measuring cylinders for measuring and diluting the chemicles. I got a nice electronic thermometer from ASDA fairly cheaply, around a fiver I think. I already had some measuring cylinders but they can also be had off eBay. Jessops also stock all of this stuff, but it will cost you an arm and a leg, and they may have to order it in.

[Zanza]

STOP! Negatives must be handled in the dark.

I was in my cupboard at the time, in the dark.

A red light when processing the negatives will still destroy them.

Hehe you can tell I'm a newb :S But I was sure redlights were ok???

Development, stop, fixing of prints can be done in darkroom conditions.

Did mine in broad daylight using the stuff I mentioned above, definately worth getting a daylight capable developing tank so you dont have to sit in the dark for 30 minuites.

[MartyG]

Red lights are fine for prints - negatives react much faster to the light, and so will be destroyed even by a red light.

[Zanza]

Cheers for the tip. Guess I will have to practice winding the film onto the reel in the dark :S

[Paleface]

Yup, Marty's right. You're just going to have to get used to fiddling in the dark. What you might find more comfortable is a safebag-type-thing (I forget the name): it's a black bag with two seals in it. You zip up your film can and your daylight tank. You zip your arms in the other end, and then you can put the thing in the developing can in the dark whilst yourself staying in the light. Not much easier, but tops you knocking stuff over in the dark.

Also, regarding the whole "I need manual" thing: you don't need _full manual_. You _do_ need at least program shift. In general, the "effect" I want can be achieved in three ways: you can know the aperture you want, if you're gunning for depth of field. You can know the shutter speed you want, if you want long/short exposures. Or you can know if you want over/under exposure.

The first two can be done in either aperture or shutter priority mode, or you can just use program shift (knocking the dial in program mode) to achieve it. Eg: the programmed exposure is 1/250 at f8. Turn the dial one notch in one direction, and you'll get 1/125 at f11 (longer exposure at narrower aperture with wider depth of field). Turn it one notch to the other and you get 1/500 at f5.6 (shorter exposure with wider aperture, and narrower depth of field).

The thing is, all three exposures will be *exposed correctly* - which is what you want. The "control" is prioritising one element over the other and making the camera obey your will. Faffing around in full manual, setting shutter speeds *and* apertures is a PITA. By contrast, even aperture priority is simple to use and gives you lots of control; my first "real" camera, which I'm annoyed I've left at my parents, was an aperture-priority Minolta SLR. And it was awesome.

The third thing I mentioned is over/under-exposure. Again, there'll be an Exposure Compensation button on a dSLR. Hold it down, turn the dial, to over or under expose by (usually) +/- 3 stops in half-stop increments.

Exposure compensation and program shift (or aperture/shutter priority) are all you need. "Full manual" is almost never necessary bar for night-time stuff.

Finally: top tip if you want to start taking B&W photos; Ilford XP2. It's a black and white film but it needs to be PROCESSED with the C41 process, namely, the standard thing colour print shops use. You drop off your can at Jessops/Boots/Wherever, tell them to process it as a normal colour film. You get black and white prints out. Of course, what you don't get is the joy of printing yourself. I'd happily print from negatives all day long... but I'd also happily pay someone else to develop the film cannister.

Did any of that remotely clear anything up for anyone?

[Shimmyhill]

Man id love to have my own ickle dark room - ive never done it and im a dslr man now. I didnt realise the setup costs where so cheap, i figured they would be several hundred.

YAY more money to blow on photography !