The Photography Thread

[Zanza]

The developings cheap, but the printing is more expensive, I assume. I'm just scanning my negatives into a computer, and printing them that way, but for dark room printing you need enlargers and all that guff, but I know very little on the subject.

[Paleface]

Oh, Zanza. You need to get your hands on an enlarger. That's the most fun bit! I picked up a secondhand one a while back (B&W enlarger) for about ?70.

The reason it's fun is that instead of using a mouse, you're actually making a physical difference. You overexpose bits by masking them off, with tape or card or your hands. You underexpose by covering them up. "Dodging" and "burning" are precisely that; dodgers are little bits of card on the end of wires that you wave around under the lens, blocking light from the paper.

And then, when you've done the exposing, you've got your dev/stop/fix process (three tanks of chemicals) and it's only after that that you see if you did it right.

It's important not to see how prints "appear" on paper, but to understand how what you might do in Photoshop relates to the action of light on photographic paper. You can save bad prints in the darkroom just as much as you can in the computer. Plus, it's the really fun bit

Things to bear in mind with darkrooms: 1) the enlarger is the most expensive bit (sub ?100 if you hunt around s/h, though and 2) chemicals go off. I never used my darkroom enough, and the thing is, chemicals aren't THAT cheap (especially print-developer)... but once you've mixed it up, you've only got a while before it's gone off and effectively useless. So if you've mixed up a big load, you really want to use it all ASAP. Stop and Fix are a lot more resilient to time/air, IIRC.

But yeah, you can easily set yourself up with a new darkroom for ?200 (as long as you have a NICE PITCH BLACK ROOM). Secondhand, I did it for ?120.

[MartyG]

Cheers for the tip. Guess I will have to practice winding the film onto the reel in the dark :S

Lots of good tips there Paleface and I have to agree, full manual is a PITA, which is why I raised the question earlier.

With regards to practicing winding on film, just use some old unprocessed film and practice winding it on in the light, then when you've got the hang of that, practice in the dark. That way if you mess up you're not going to be detroying shots you've spent hours composing.

I set up a darkroom in the cupboard under my stairs, you don't really need that much room. I was lent a Russian enlarger (was originaly bought for ?5), three trays (one for dev, one for fix, one for wash). Negative reel and developer canister, paper, squidgies, and a clothes line - all ready to go for under ?100. You don't need running water in your darkroom. A fixer mix can be reused a few times before it starts to go off, so you don't need to throw that away each time. Developing your own stuff with an enlarger really is as much if not more fun than taking the photos in the first place.

Once you get the hang of developing, you can start playing about with pushing and pulling film for different effects - lots of fun.

Printing definitely doesn't have to be expensive, you can do a contact sheet and pick out the negatives you want to print. I tend to use Ilford stuff (again) - as I like it. Ilford Multigrade FB 8x10 25 sheets can be had for ?15 or less, you'll get a 100 sheets of 5x7 for around ?20. Chemicals can be had ready mixed concentrates for a ?5 for 250ml (these are then diluted). So you can see it's far cheaper than having it done by a lab - plus you have control over the process.

You defo want to use old clothes though, I've found the chemicals like destroying them.

Take a look at http://www.jessops.com/search/showsubdept.cfm?node=145 for lots of darkroom stuff.

I've never tried Ilford XP2, does it really give the same kind of results as true B&W? I do like Ilford film, have a stack of it in the fridge atm.

[PeteJ]

I used to use Ilford B&W film back on my EOS300v, but despite sending the film off to Ilford themselves for processing they managed to completely screw up the prints. I was really pissed off at their service - rather than offer a refund they offered another b&w film - when I already had my digital! It took them six months to return the film when usually it would take ten days. The shots they sent back were all ruined by being half printed on one photo and half on the next (and yes, it was correctly loaded).

I contacted them and they refused to refund the money.

Rubbish service, glad I've gone to digital.

Sammyhill, love the photos. You've inspired me to try a few things

Paleface and Marty, you both seem to know a great deal about the technical side of things. Very usual information. I tend to shoot in Appature Priority also, though I do have a bad habbit of falling back to the preset Auto modes when I'm without my tripod or trying to get something moving. I really struggle with the tripod though, may be worth me investing in something a bit better than a budget Jessops piece of crap!

On Saturday I left my camera in a funny mode while my Sister in Law took a family shot, the result was quite a surprise (and pretty cool I feel).



Just a straight forward shot in a well lit location facing the sea. That's me, on the right

[MartyG]

I do have a bad habbit of falling back to the preset Auto modes when I'm without my tripod or trying to get something moving. I really struggle with the tripod though, may be worth me investing in something a bit better than a budget Jessops piece of crap!

You're not going to need a tripod for anything much less than a 1/60th sec exposure with regards to camera shake, so what aspect are you struggling with? Slower shutter speeds definitely need a tripod and a remote shutter release - doing low light stuff pretty much demands it.

The thing I think about most when composing a shot is depth of field and the rule of thirds and the "Z" factor, and this is why I like AP. The smaller the apature, the greater the depth of field (i.e., simply, the more distance will be in focus on the exposure). But, the smaller the apature the longer the exposures (although this is again dependent on the film ISO rating). The rule of thirds and "Z factor" stuff is more composure - making the frame interesting and leading the eye into the photo.

There's so much to photography it's worth enrolling on a night school class - I'd been doing amatuer stuff for years and reading the books and magazines, but doing the courses showed me stuff rather than me reading about - plus you meet like minded peeps and get to use the college darkrooms.

[PeteJ]

I mean struggling with all the nobs and spinndly legs! I can't take portrait shots on it because the tripod can't take the weight of the camera on the side

I try to remember the rule of thirds whenever possible (sometimes easier said than done, and I've always been the one to break 'rules'). The Z factor is one I've not heard of before - I knew about apature, but I've never really thought of it in such easy way.

Regarding the night school, this is actually something I'm looking into. The local courses aren't particularly well placed (or times - 4:30 pm? how the **** am I meant to get there in time after work?) for me, but I think I've found one. It's called "Digital Photography: First Steps" which sounds a little worryingly like I'll spend 10 weeks (and ?60) learning how to load Photoshop, but I hope to pick up some tips all the same. As you say, one thing I'd love to do is meet like-minded people.

[MartyG]

Right - I'm going to go dig out what stuff I have scanned - most of my portfolio is in print and B&W, but I'd like to share some of the stuff I've done, given there are some such nice compositions in this thread.

The Z factor is the way you scan a page or image - left to right, to bottom corner and left to right again - just like the letter Z. It's the way the eye is drawn in.

[MartyG]

Right - this is a pic very much using the Z rule - you can see the trees then the houses then the grass - plus the flags in the gardens making the focus of attention, drawing you back into the centre. Defo could be a little sharper in focus, this is a little soft, but it's one of the photos I took in Staten Island suberbia I really liked.

[MartyG]

It's a shame here I couldn't avoid people in the frame - I tried and tried. This is the Ellis Island museum, the place people coming into the US were sent to make sure they were suitable for entry - I like the colours on the thirds of the pic and the way you are drawn to the centre. Would defo have been better without the people at the entrance, but hey.

[MartyG]

I watched this guy for ages to try and get a shot without him really noticing - he just looked so zen that I didn't want to disturb him - shame that in the background another person is in frame - but of all the pics I took of this guy sneakily, this is the one I liked most, despite that.

Photoshopped him out ("Zen.jpg")

[MartyG]

I'm not even sure what this particular thing is - but it was on an aircraft carrier I went on - I just liked the "zoning" composition.

[marcus]

Right - this is a pic very much using the Z rule - you can see the trees then the houses then the grass - plus the flags in the gardens making the focus of attention, drawing you back into the centre. Defo could be a little sharper in focus, this is a little soft, but it's one of the photos I took in Staten Island suberbia I really liked.

Thats a very nice shot. Its amazing how much having people in a picture can ruin it, the others are very good but this one stands out for me.

[MartyG]

A portrait - I think it speaks for itself.

[Shimmyhill]

Sammyhill, love the photos. You've inspired me to try a few things

I guess thats me Thanks

I really struggle with the tripod though, may be worth me investing in something a bit better than a budget Jessops piece of crap!

I got a Manfrotto tripod on Monday and it was worth the money, i have plenty of cheap tripods and they are all rubbish when trying to move them and use in potrait. This Manfrotto is awesome, rock solid stable and one of my best buys ! I would defi recommend buying a good tripod.

[bangaio]

What is the best way to post pics? Would I be looking at a flickr account?