State of UK Politics

[Dogg Thang]

The problem with that, Charles, is illustrated here in Ireland all the time and I'm sure it's not all that different in many other countries - politicians can make far more than even their inflated salaries by making shady deals under the table, land zoning, looking the other way when companies bend or break rules and that sort of thing.

They'll do that regardless of how much they are paid.

[Kit]

To be honest, I don't give a crap about the expenses row. It's rich to hear TV presenters who earn double what MPs earn and jet across the world on (in the case of the BBC) the licence payer's expense, talk about this subject. I'm sure they don't hire accountants to ensure they pay as little tax as possible too...

I think you?ve got to look at it this way: the money should be going somewhere appropriate (like to a carer), not to some fat turd MP who needs his second home decorating.

I agree though, it?s a bit rich seeing the bbc head the expenses row. If I was an MP I?d just bring up how much they spend on taxies each year.

Yikes!

The whole system is rotten to the core. Guy Fawlkes had the right idea - blow it up and start again.

Agreed, and preferably with someone who?s lived/worked in the real world as opposed to these silver spooned public school boy types.

[Spatial]

Now do you see?

Well in that case you'll be one of the first ones chucked out of the country, what with you being an American.

[endo]

Yeah, tell that to the people of Zimbabwe!

http://geoconger.files.wordpress.com...t-mugabe-2.jpg

Yeah? Well, tell all of that to the people of North Korea! I win dodgy leader top trumps

Seriously though, I'm with Brats. I haven't a clue who I'd vote for in the next election. The Tories are still the same bunch of hateful elitists (the chap who claimed for having his moat cleaned made me laugh- way to show your party's in touch with the common man!) just with a younger, less obviously sinister frontman in Cameron.

Labour's gone to **** a long time ago. Lib Dems, lots of talk and not much else. Who else? Greens, they've got nothing, BNP, crazy racist arsewipes, UKIP, twats to a man.

Still, nothing's going to change. Whoever wins at the next election will just perpetuate all the **** they inherit and blame it on those who went before. There's no way the people can change it either. The chances of any sort of revolution are zero.

[abigsmurf]

Politicians should get paid the minimum wage. Then you'd get people doing it because they wanted to, not because they are power hungry egotistical maniacs who feed off risk and reward and are all quite happy to bend the rules as far as possible for their own gain and for short term kudos.

I'm guessing many decisions are made purely to keep your party in power in the short term rather than because it might actually be useful to the country. Which if true, sucks badly. Not that I can see any way of changing this. Apart from the wage reduction as above.

I'm guessing Brats wanted a serious discussion, so please keep the thread on track. Thanks.

Because a system where it's only possible for rich people or people backed/sponsored by companies to become MPs would be so much better?

MPs shouldn't receive insane wages but they should receive wages that reflect a job that's 24/7 and eliminates personal privacy. You really don't want MPs who are struggling to make ends meet and feel their work is undervalued.

Oh and just to remind people, Guy Fawkes didn't care about democracy, he hated the protestant king and wanted a catholic ruler who'd obey the pope. He was a religious nut job, not the patron saint of anarchy as he's made out to be.

[fishbowlhead]

Ill be first in line for a revolution, if anyone in the country decides to grow a spine that is.

[eastyy]

The problems are not unique to the UK. Here in Ireland, every generation of government blames corruption on the previous and yet they all end up doing the same thing.

But these are man-made systems.

They don't follow some divine plan. People just made up systems of rules and other people bend those rules or find loopholes to exploit them. But the point is, people just made them up.

People seem to accept the world they are born into like there is no other way.

But, if we created these systems, we can tear them down. As Brats says, blow it all up and start again.

This is why I was actually hoping the banks would collapse here in Ireland. There was one day where that was hours from happening. It would have sent the country into anarchy and the government would have been torn down. I was willing to put money on the government not lasting a week if that happened. And, yeah, while the fallout would have been horrendous, the result would have been a need to rebuild pretty much from scratch.

Sometimes, it's only by things going to complete **** that people will actually get up and contribute to making things better.

hate the goverment in ireland i personally blame them for the mess the economy is in the first place (not that they caused it....but the should have had plans in place for when it did all go tits up...as they had warnings years ago)

[EJG1980]

Lib Dems, lots of talk and not much else.

I'd be tempted to vote for them just because Labour and the Tories have both had chances to eff up the country so why not give the Lib Dems a go? They're all talk because, well, that's all they can do really. I say give them a chance so they can mess things up and we can hate them too!

Only problem with that is the law of diminishing returns. If we keep voting in the parties who've not yet had a chance to show us what they can do we'd eventually end up having to put the "I quite like Malteasers" party in power because we'd gone though everyone else (although their free Malteasers for all policy is clearly a vote winner)

[MisterBubbles]

Whats the Monster Raving Looney Party been doing lately?

[Skull Commander]

The thing that really pi***s me off is that the MPs are meant to be public servents, and all they are serving are themselves. I don't want a substantial amount of my wage going towards cleaning some pricks moat. They should be made to pay back EVERY unnecessary expense WITH interest.

[Kieran76]

It is interesting that The Telegraph has chosen to publish all parties expenses, you would have thought they would have done a job on Labour. 'Course come June 4th this will play into the hands of the BNP, Greens etc.
The sleaze can't change my core beliefs and I will always be to the left, but I do feel that I will be doing more research into my MP/MEP before I vote again.

[abigsmurf]

As I've said before. I really don't care at all about this.

Fine, MPs claimed dodgy expenses, reclaim the expenses move on.

This small trickle of every slightly dodgy expenses claim over the last month is pathetic. A new headline every day for each claim. Hours wasted in parliament every day, all these interviews, investigations, accountants being brought in to investigate each item. It must be costing millions, as well preventing more important matters taking place.

The paper has had this info for month and will keep trickling out this info when they could quite easily release it all at once so that it doesn't waste more time and money. But no, they only care about drawing this story out for as long as possible and paralysing parliament.

[Kieran76]

And selling more papers.

[prinnysquad]

The sooner we introduce PR in national elections the better.

Then you'd feel like your vote actually counted (provided of course there was someone worth voting for). PR in the Euro elections has enabled Green Party members to get elected, which would never happen in a FPTP general election. Whether you agree with the Green platform or not, it proves that it's more representative than the current system.

[Brats]

As I've said before. I really don't care at all about this.

Fine, MPs claimed dodgy expenses, reclaim the expenses move on.

This small trickle of every slightly dodgy expenses claim over the last month is pathetic. A new headline every day for each claim. Hours wasted in parliament every day, all these interviews, investigations, accountants being brought in to investigate each item. It must be costing millions, as well preventing more important matters taking place.

The paper has had this info for month and will keep trickling out this info when they could quite easily release it all at once so that it doesn't waste more time and money. But no, they only care about drawing this story out for as long as possible and paralysing parliament.

I think the main thing that the expenses row shows is that if you give people enough rope, they will hang themselves with it. It also goes to show that behind closed doors, ethical behaviour goes completely out of the window.

I'm not bothered about how much MPs earn (just like I wasn't bothered by Fred Goodwins pension) but the lack of ethical behaviour does underline that democracy is not about 'of the people, by the people for the people' at all, it's about personal greed and power.

It also highlights how much contempt politicians have for the public. When this scandal hit, I'm amazed that some had the audacity to cry foul at the leak and try to concentrate on punishing that.

We've got local council elections here soon and it's all as bad. We had a leaflet from some party claiming they would improve the roads, put more police on the beat and not increase the council tax. When I questioned which services they plan to cut in order to meet these promises, they had no answer. How stupid do they think we are?

It also appalls me how little politicians are held to account. I read in the Metro the other week that Boris Johnson had failed to deliver one of his key election promises. This was a tiny piece tucked away in the paper. I think there should be rules whereby if the manifesto is not delivered, the party funds (not the government) gets fined.

It's all fundamental because we (and other Western states) invade other countries to 'bring them' democracy holding it up as this wonderful thing, when in reality it is deeply flawed in our own country. I'm not saying another political system is better, but like the banking system, democracy only works if properly regulated.

Sometimes I think we should do away with all politicians and just make everything into a referendum. Whenever an issue comes up, we all get to vote on a website what we want, the majority vote wins. We employ a small group that ensure the wishes of the people are carried out and that's it.

At least we'd have no-one to blame except ourselves.