Is "nationality" becoming outdated?

[sj33]

<sigh> Well, you are a bastion of your generation I suppose, sadly.

Honestly, when the human race becomes able to judge the value of achievements on the basis and merits of the achievements themselves rather than through the lens of nationalism, I think the human race will have progressed significantly.

But we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one!

[Brad]

I think the issue here is different interpretations of what pride is isn't it? I can see both points of view but I'd probably word things differently.

[MisterBubbles]

Ok you all mostly know i now live in Germany. So, Scotland is playing Germany in the up and coming European championships. So if nationality didn't exist then i should now support Germany, cause it's where i stay and im involved in the culture and life. But no im like Colin, im proud to be Scottish, i'll never be German. I think most wars start because out of ignorance of other societies cultures and believes and/or thinking your culture and race are superior ( ie the Nazi's). We arnt all the same and should all be proud of our own nationality and it's culture but be open minded to other cultures, this way we make a more harmonious world, not this namby pamby hippie nonsense we are all the same.

[Dogg Thang]

we arnt all the same and should all be proud of our own nationality and it's culture but be open minded to other cultures, this way we make a more harmonious world

I can't think how pride in nationality has ever made a more harmonious world. If anything your open minded view of other cultures requires less pride in your own (hence your need to use 'but' rather than 'and'). Pride is too easily taken advantage of and blinds people to the reality, especially when applied to something like a basic geographical area.

I do agree with Colin on the local achievements but should national lines be the cut off there? For example, someone in Canada being proud of something someone else did in the Canada might cover the same geographical distance as us being proud of something someone did in Iran. Should we claim all Iranian achievements as our own or deny a Canadian being proud of achievements too far away? It's just so arbitrary and mostly meaningless.

[Kieran76]

This makes me laugh. Why shouldn't you take pride in the country of your birth? Brought on by the achievements of your fellow countrymen, who have strived for advancements in medicine, science, technology or basic human rights? It's laughable that you throw out this vision of no national identity, when all it does it make you an equal of the countries of the world who should hang their heads in shame on account of the atrocities they are responsible for. Your national identity means something, and as misguided as my countrymen's current vote for independence is (which I'm against by the way) I can understand their frustration. Within the so called Great Britain, we're all in our own way losing our national identity, which is a sad thing when you consider how many things we can all take pride in whether we be Scottish, English, Welsh or Irish. Shame on you if you think otherwise, and pity on those from your respective countries who have fought and died before you to give you the freedom of life that you take for granted.

Me, I'm immensely proud of being Scottish, and I take that pride with me through this planet in every country I visit.

Well put, I agree with everything you say. Apart from the independence bit.

['Press Start']

Delete. no time to reply I'll do it later.

[kryss]

Be excellent to each other.
And party on.

[gunrock]

I'm with sj33 on this. I take no pride in being English nor shame. Accident of birth, innit?

I fully understand that people in Scotland or the North of England, Wales, Ireland etc. not wishing to be ruled by a bunch of tossers in London, I get that, but this nationalistic fervour is beyond me. You tell me Colin, that your day to day existence doesn't revolve around the same kind of stuff that everyone else in the UK does. Sure, there's colliquial differences, slang and language differences, local dishes and traditions, accents and collective humour, but all that is enriching if we share it with others. You lived in London for years, right? Was it so different that you felt submersed in an alien culture? I'm genuinely interested.

BTW I wholly support your right to seek independence and self rule. But you'll be missed is all I'm saying!

[Colin]

Gunrock, it's obvious that everyone throughout the various nations of the UK live similar lives, it would be silly to think otherwise. Yes, I lived in London for almost 15 years, but if anything my time there did nothing but to enforce my feeling of national identity. It saddens me, but it seems to me that the people of London are the most likely to feel a lack of pride in their national identity as it's one of the places facing the biggest dilution of what it is to be English due to various reasons, but that's only to be expected in such a diverse city. And I'm not talking about the pit bull owning, union jack tattooed muppets, but good genuine people. I've been working in York this past year and it's been a revelation how different people within the same country can behave and feel about who they are, I actually think the people there are a great advertisement for the country compared to the (in my opinion) bitter and cynical Londoners. Yes, living in London was MASSIVELY different from how it is to live here where I'm from in Scotland. There is very little feeling of community, and I could never stand that. Let's be clear though that it's a city that contains some of my closest friends, and in no way am I sweepingly saying that everyone there should be tarred with the same brush.

It will obviously go against the grain of the majority of people posting in this thread, but I have never at any point in my life considered myself British. In fact, I resent having to at times identify myself as such in my life as in my mind I am Scottish, born and bred, with the instilled values that came from my upbringing. You might not like that, I don't really care, but it's part of who I feel I am. Let's be clear though, that despite my own nationalistic feelings, that I am under no illusion that people in my own country are changing and that my views may well be outdated.

[huxley]

Be excellent to each other.
And party on.

Perfect!

[originalbadboy]

It's laughable that you throw out this vision of no national identity, when all it does it make you an equal of the countries of the world who should hang their heads in shame on account of the atrocities they are responsible for.

Britain has had its hand in a fair share of atrocities over the years, and still does to this day. Don't think for a second because you are 'British', you are in some way better than everyone else. Our hands are as dirty as any other country in the world. That's a pretty arrogant and isolationist way of looking at it, which is half the issue with 'lines on the map'. It separates people and makes them arrogant and ignorant of the world around them.

[Colin]

I don't consider myself British, and I'm not oblivious to what has gone before or do I consider myself better than anyone else. My hands are clean, thanks.

['Press Start']

For example, someone in Canada being proud of something someone else did in the Canada.

Unless that Canadian was another race to the inventor then we might have another issue! . Then the inventor might have used physics from a certain German Physicist, using Japanese and Swiss technology. I agree with your post dog!

These lands have a rich history long before any borders were installed by the Church and the Romans. There were no Scots, Irish, Welsh or English. It is an amazing history and a sad one as divide and rule is no more evident then here on our own doorstep.

That is not to say you shouldn't be proud of the here and now, but the Celtic, Crymu and Cornish walked these lands before they were taken by the sword and divided up to serve a new empire.

['Press Start']

Britain has had its hand in a fair share of atrocities over the years, and still does to this day. Don't think for a second because you are 'British', you are in some way better than everyone else. Our hands are as dirty as any other country in the world. That's a pretty arrogant and isolationist way of looking at it, which is half the issue with 'lines on the map'. It separates people and makes them arrogant and ignorant of the world around them.

I don't get it, Colin said in a previous post he does not consider himself British?

As Colin is pure bred Scottish I think his ancestors would have been on the receiving end of some of those atrocities, so that is quite a mis hit.

[sj33]

If we're going to talk about our ancestors (putting aside the absurdity of the idea that all people within a nation all share the same collective ancestors), then that would imply that we cannot only be proud of the achievements of our ancestors but must also take the blame for the atrocities.

England has committed a large amount of atrocities towards Scotland. But does that mean that I should share the blame for that due to accident of birth? I'm not really comfortable with that. Similarly, the modern day German people should not be blamed for the Nazi, and Italians should not be blamed for fascism. Saying that we should collectively embrace 'the nation's' achievements would also imply the inverse.

I support Scottish independence, by the way. But on the basis of a greater level of democracy potentially being achieved due to the institution of the UK clearly not suitably democratically representing people in Scotland. Nationalism is a separate issue entirely.