BPX002: This May Be Our Independence Day

[Asura]

I'll be voting to stay; that being said, I think we'll be leaving for the reasons already discussed.

[Dogg Thang]

If you guys vote to stay, I think we all get to vote on whether we'll let you or not.

[Asura]

So for housing, wanting england to be england, and apple lovers everywhere, my vote is OUT.

What does us being in the EU have to do with the housing crisis?

The housing crisis exists because the British middle-class have bought up all the UK's cheap housing and buy-to-let, becausse they lived in an era when houses were as little as a third of current average prices (even if you consider inflation). Leaving the EU won't change that one bit.

They also intend to leave those houses and the enormous rental profits to their children, perpetuating an enormous social imbalance that can never right itself.

The only way to do it would be for us to find a way to make amateur landlording financially unattractive, or build enough houses so as to destroy the value of property that has built up over the last 3 decades. No government scheme is going to do it, nor splitting from the EU. Houses need to be cheaper.

[PaTaito]

Unrecognisable? That's change. That's fine progression. That's history. All countries change.

No space? Blame our crappy infrastructure and inability to see the worth of the UK outside of London.

Too many of the same old, tired arguments that really are small fry in this country.

Tired maybe but completely valid. Look at how working class houses were built 50 years ago, and look at the way they are thrown together in lego land estates now. I live in the east midlands and in many places i frequent you can clearly see the effect that massive migration has had...nowhere near your london. Are you saying that outside london its like the arizona desert? Plenty of room to keep building more and more houses, to accommodate more and more migrants, bearing in mind there is already a shortage?

As for Change? fine progression? Do me a favor...you call that progression? for whom exactly? If you were born into poverty in a poor eastern european country and managed to migrate to the UK its progression, sure. For people in the UK? less space, social paranoia, more expensive houses etc.

My uncle recently retired and had a pay out...25 years back, even with the difference in the value of the pound, he would have been able to afford a detatched bungalow that he really wanted. The reality now? a far lesser semi with what has turned out to be a horrendous noise nuisance next door. Real impact on a person who has worked hard all his life.

Your idea of change is something i think is rather unpleasant for my personal taste.

[PaTaito]

What does us being in the EU have to do with the housing crisis?

The housing crisis exists because the British middle-class have bought up all the UK's cheap housing and buy-to-let, becausse they lived in an era when houses were as little as a third of current average prices (even if you consider inflation). Leaving the EU won't change that one bit.

They also intend to leave those houses and the enormous rental profits to their children, perpetuating an enormous social imbalance that can never right itself.

The only way to do it would be for us to find a way to make amateur landlording financially unattractive, or build enough houses so as to destroy the value of property that has built up over the last 3 decades. No government scheme is going to do it, nor splitting from the EU. Houses need to be cheaper.

What does us being in the EU have to do with the housing crisis?

Open borders with attractive benefits for how many years now? And its not like everyone lives in a tent down at the local parks, like some of the romanian crowd.

Your housing theory may well hold some weight, but you cannot tell me that having millions of unnecessary extra people in this country hasn't impacted housing in terms of overcrowding AND price. People simply have to live somewhere, and demand always directly reflects price.

Also, the extra X million amount of foreigners only serves to further perpetuate your middle class landlord theory? Would there even be a housing shortage without the last 20 or 30 years of mass immigration?

[PaTaito]

What does us being in the EU have to do with the housing crisis?

The housing crisis exists because the British middle-class have bought up all the UK's cheap housing and buy-to-let, becausse they lived in an era when houses were as little as a third of current average prices (even if you consider inflation). Leaving the EU won't change that one bit.

They also intend to leave those houses and the enormous rental profits to their children, perpetuating an enormous social imbalance that can never right itself.

The only way to do it would be for us to find a way to make amateur landlording financially unattractive, or build enough houses so as to destroy the value of property that has built up over the last 3 decades. No government scheme is going to do it, nor splitting from the EU. Houses need to be cheaper.

What does us being in the EU have to do with the housing crisis?

Open borders with attractive benefits for how many years now? And its not like everyone lives in a tent down at the local parks like some of the romanian crowd.

Your housing theory may well hold some weight, but you cannot tell me that having millions of unnecessary extra people in this country hasn't impacted housing in terms of overcrowding AND price. People simply have to live somewhere, and demand always directly reflects price.

In fact the extra X million amount of foreigners looking to rent a home can only serve to further perpetuate your middle class landlord theory? Would there even be a housing shortage without the last 20 or 30 years of mass immigration? Would house prices have changed as dramatically? Would the demand for rented property be as high if our population hadn't been drastically increased? Would the "buy to let" culture have been as much of a deal today?

[Protocol Penguin]

My partner is from another EU country. One with a higher population and a much more generous social system. And obeys the same freedom of movement laws you misleadingly call "open borders". Guess what? No housing crisis, no over-priced housing, and lower rents with better quality of housing. Blaming the housing crisis on "the EU" is absolute ignorance, there's no other way of putting it. As Asura pointed out before, it's due to a completely broken market and economic model our successive governments haven't bothered to sort out properly.

[PaTaito]

My partner is from another EU country. One with a higher population and a much more generous social system. And obeys the same freedom of movement laws you misleadingly call "open borders". Guess what? No housing crisis, no over-priced housing, and lower rents with better quality of housing. Blaming the housing crisis on "the EU" is absolute ignorance, there's no other way of putting it. As Asura pointed out before, it's due to a completely broken market and economic model our successive governments haven't bothered to sort out properly.

Well dont tickle me with half details...what country are we talking about?

How does your partners origin country compare to the UK in size? Is it a country with a language as commonly spoken as english?

[Dogg Thang]

Sounds like the real root of the problem here is the English language. Make Welsh the main language of the country and all your problems will be solved.

[PaTaito]

Sounds like the real root of the problem here is the English language. Make Welsh the main language of the country and all your problems will be solved.

Are you going to try and argue that language wouldn't be a big consideration when people decide to move to another country? Perhaps you we are just spoilt by the fact that as english speakers WE can move pretty much anywhere and can expect a fair amount of people to speak our language to a passable level.

That might not be the case for a lot of other places. The choice of moving somewhere where you can have a conversation or even just understand some of what is being said, compared to a place where you cannot, can and will make a huge difference in the choice of destination for many migrants. Especially if the reason for migrating is financially motivated, although today its easier than ever even if you don't speak english...of course many cannot speak a word of english but it would be foolish to think that this isn't a factor, especially for migrants from countries within the EU.

It is said that about 1.8 billion people speak english, and probably more still understand it.

[Dogg Thang]

I just came to the table with a solution. I think it should go to a referendum.

[Asura]

Well dont tickle me with half details...what country are we talking about?

How does your partners origin country compare to the UK in size? Is it a country with a language as commonly spoken as english?

You're not another one of these people who thinks every immigrant on the move is coming to the UK, are you?

I hope not, because it's one step away from the childish, deep-seated idea that every German, French and Spanish person deep down wishes they were British and lived in Britain, because supposedly Britain's the centre of the world and everything happens here.

[Dogg Thang]

To be fair, you did win the 1966 World Cup. What other country can claim that?

[Colin]

If this thread gets to ten pages plus without getting locked I'll be filled with pride by the forum.

[PaTaito]

I just came to the table with a solution. I think it should go to a referendum.