America & World IV: Trump's Taxing Day

[Cassius_Smoke]

Strawman. Not the same thing at all.

Your arguing about likes and dislikes on YouTube videos.

[Brad]

Hide the likes as well. The content creator needs to know. No one else does. I don’t see the point of hiding one without the other. It reminds me of when eBay stopped sellers from being able to give bad feedback to buyers.

[Asura]

No, no it doesn't. I t could indicate anything, that they don't like the presenter's ties, that they don't like the music, that the presenter is non-gender specific, if Trump has told them to do it. That is the point. Your voice is not being removed at all.

I don't believe anyone watches a YT video and bases whether the content is right or wrong on the like dislike ratio and if they do, they probably need to take a moment and re-evaluate their life.

Okay, but then people will just base it on views. So "the game" for YouTube creators just becomes "how many people can I get to click on this video and watch it for 10 seconds". Every person who does that is the same, like it, hate it, doesn't matter.

The algorithm will use the invisible data but while you might not use it, people clearly do use the visible ratio for things. I've definitely closed a video in the past that's meant to give factual info if the dislike rate is really, really high, in favour of one without that.

[Cassius_Smoke]

Okay, but then people will just base it on views. So "the game" for YouTube creators just becomes "how many people can I get to click on this video and watch it for 10 seconds". Every person who does that is the same, like it, hate it, doesn't matter.

The algorithm will use the invisible data but while you might not use it, people clearly do use the visible ratio for things. I've definitely closed a video in the past that's meant to give factual info if the dislike rate is really, really high, in favour of one without that.

I wouldn't argue. Just nod and agree.

[MartyG]

Okay, but then people will just base it on views. So "the game" for YouTube creators just becomes "how many people can I get to click on this video and watch it for 10 seconds". Every person who does that is the same, like it, hate it, doesn't matter.

The algorithm will use the invisible data but while you might not use it, people clearly do use the visible ratio for things. I've definitely closed a video in the past that's meant to give factual info if the dislike rate is really, really high, in favour of one without that.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. The likes/dislikes have zero bearing on views right now - they don't make someone watch it or not watch it. They're already watching it if they're on the page - videos with large dislikes aren't getting less views are they? So how does that have any relevance at all to the viewer? It doesn't change the content, it's all engagement that helps promote videos to the front page.

Maybe my point of view is strange in that I base my opinion of a YT video's content by actually watching the video, rather basing my opinion on an arbitary metric that can be skewed by ridiculous and unrelated factors. The thing most likely to make me not watch a video is a click bait title and thumbnail, not a number.

[Asura]

Maybe my point of view is strange in that I base my opinion of a YT video's content by actually watching the video,

This seems a bit condescending. It's not like others don't do this. I feel I've already explained, but to lay it out again...

The point though is that without the dislikes, there's no way for the public to convey dissatisfaction for a video's content. You can't say "just don't watch it" because to find out whether they're satisfied or not, they have to watch it.

IIRC EA had a video with a crapton of dislikes when they laid out how the IAPs would work in Battlefront. They also had loads of views. People couldn't just "not watch it" because they had to watch it to find out if they liked/disliked the thing.

If that information was private, EA might've just ignored it, or in public just said it was a storm-in-a-teacup, a few rabble-rousers shouting loud while everyone else was queueing up to let their kids into EA's casino.

But it was public, so EA couldn't suggest it wasn't a widely held opinion.

videos with large dislikes aren't getting less views are they?

No, but surely that's why they're needed. Otherwise there's essentially no difference between a video a million people love and a video a million people hate. Companies can announce ****ty things, get tons of "engagement" in the form of views, and tell their shareholders how amazing a job they're doing. No-one can prove otherwise.

[Brad]

^^ That's an interesting point. People used the dislike feature to show they didn't like what EA were doing. Not to say they didn't like the video, or they didn't like EA telling them what they were going to do. They disliked "something".

I will dislike a video if it's clickbait and you've tricked me. Doesn't mean the content isn't good; I just don't like something about it. I imagine some game review videos get disliked if someone doesn't agree with the review too.

[MartyG]

The point though is that without the dislikes, there's no way for the public to convey dissatisfaction for a video's content.

The dislike button is NOT disappearing, so how is that true? And the comment sections are still open for toxic posts.

I will dislike a video if it's clickbait and you've tricked me. Doesn't mean the content isn't good; I just don't like something about it. I imagine some game review videos get disliked if someone doesn't agree with the review too.

Exactly - so we can conclude from that then, that the like / dislike ratio is not a good metric for measuring quality, only current group think.

By the end of the month, everyone will have moved on and wonder what all the fuss was about. Storm in a teacup and if it helps remove some of the toxic dislike bombing, all the better.

Should get rid of the like button on here too.

[Asura]

The dislike button is NOT disappearing, so how is that true? And the comment sections are still open for toxic posts

Okay, I'm gonna stop. I sometimes dislike videos, and that isn't inherently toxic behaviour. I can see the difference I'm talking about but you clearly don't want to, and that's fine.

You evidently think that it's inherently toxic though, with comments like that - but this is clearly a deep-seated belief and you have strong reasons for thinking it, so I think we're done here.

[MartyG]

Yes, we'll just have to disagree on the importance and relevance of a like / dislike number and the behaviour that goes along with it - you can still use the dislike button, it will still have the effect you want in the algorithm showing the content you want to see.

My original point was, actually, that removing it isn't going to change anything meaningful - those making a fuss about it were riding a storm in a teacup.

[Asura]

Yes, we'll just have to disagree on the importance and relevance of a like / dislike number and the behaviour that goes along with it - you can still use the dislike button, it will still have the effect you want in the algorithm showing the content you want to see.

My original point was, actually, that removing it isn't going to change anything meaningful - those making a fuss about it were riding a storm in a teacup.

Well hey, it's an internet forum. If we weren't going to vigorously debate stuff more than is honestly warranted, what would we actually do

[MartyG]

Well exactly - we just have opposing views on this, that's all. I don't think that everyone who dislikes a video is toxic, but that it is used for toxic group think behaviour, just as the hate raids are on twitch. My channel is tiny but I still get a glut of toxic comments - YT automatically stops most of it from appearing - generally most is constructive or positive and relevant and what do I care if someone doesn't like my jacket (I used to get death threats on here from modding the forum)? So I can imagine that scaled up tho.

Removing the number from view doesn't change how the algorithm actually works, so if you're seeing content you don't like, it's because you're engaging with it - engagement is everything, good or bad.

As I never go to the home page (my bookmark is my subs page), I don't see much in the way of the "you'll never believe what happens next" stuff that floats to the top, so new channels are normally thru the suggested similar vids or specific searches and I find the algorithm does a pretty good job to suggest content that's relevant to my tastes.

[wakka]

I just want to say we should never get rid of the like button on here. It's fun!

[MartyG]

Now you're just angling for likes.

[wakka]

Smash that like button Marty. Go on.

EDIT: This has given me a chuckle.