UK Energy Costs

[Asura]

The Conservatives know how to make money for the rich. They know piss all about running a fair and equitable society. It’s the biggest myth in politics that they know how to run the economy. They know how to sell stuff off to their mates below market value and asset strip the public purse. They’re bloody good at that.

Which would be fine, if trickle-down-economics really worked.

[gunrock]

Not really [MENTION=5941]Asura[/MENTION], even if trickle-down economics worked, it's still fundamentally unfair to take an asset that is publicly owned and sell it off below market value for it to be run into the ground to service shareholder profit.

Besides the idea of money "trickleing down" suggests there is a huge pool of wealth in a reservoir way above and we, the plebs, should be grateful for the ha'pennies that occasionally fall off of the big boys' tables. The idea we should embrace it is a con and insulting.

A publicly-owned utility like water-companies benefit society at large (even if billionaires only drink Fiji bottled water, they probably still use the tap to fill their pool or wash their cars). Whereas publicly-traded companies are part of the zero-sum game that is the stock market, where there are some winners and just as many losers.

[Asura]

Not really @Asura, even if trickle-down economics worked, it's still fundamentally unfair to take an asset that is publicly owned and sell it off below market value for it to be run into the ground to service shareholder profit.

Besides the idea of money "trickleing down" suggests there is a huge pool of wealth in a reservoir way above and we, the plebs, should be grateful for the ha'pennies that occasionally fall off of the big boys' tables. The idea we should embrace it is a con and insulting.

I think you've misunderstood my tone, but I was probably overly terse.

Trick-down-economics doesn't work. But the theory is that society as a whole is elevated by the presence of super-rich people, and while that results in inequality, it's supposed to mean that the added prosperity mean that those at the bottom rungs of the ladder are doing better than they otherwise would.

But this is Thatcherist fiction. If it worked, it would still be unequal, but we wouldn't be seeing many of the problems we're seeing now. The presence of those problems is proof it's a fallacy.

tl;dr god those rich people are looking tastier every week

[gunrock]

Ah ok, I thought you were suggesting that "if it worked, then good times!", which seemed out of character, but I felt a stripe of indignation rising, so went with it and vented on you.
No offense!

[Hirst]

Trickle down economics could only ever work if the super-rich had to pay their taxes, which they won't. The Conservative party are run by and funded by the super-rich and they aren't ever going to make it so they have to lose money.

There was an argument once that we shouldn't have sweeping taxes on the super-rich because it would cause them to leave the country. My argument would be - so what? The country would still run if it only had poor people in it. Let the parasites leave.

[Asura]

There was an argument once that we shouldn't have sweeping taxes on the super-rich because it would cause them to leave the country. My argument would be - so what? The country would still run if it only had poor people in it. Let the parasites leave.

Yeah, I had this row with my dad re: Corbyn, funnily enough. Suggesting the rich will just move to tax havens; but I pointed out that they already keep all their money in tax havens and "avoid" nearly all tax via other means anyway.

Things like deductibles, i.e. being able to reduce your tax by paying for things like charities... I don't get how that was ever allowed. As a normal taxpayer, I don't get to choose where my tax goes. I can't say "oh, my tax is £x for the year? Then I donate £x to the NHS instead". It's how the wealthy run the country.

[Brad]

Sign up to dontpay.uk. It worked for the poll tax back in the day; it'll work this time too.

[Lebowski]

Our economy is based on us being able to spend so I'm not sure why the goverment is so keen for us to spend all the money we have on energy Bills, you can see the headlines now retail spending is down massively and we don't know why.

[Hirst]

I think the reason the government are so keen is that they see it as a bluff and reckon that poor people can either cut out "luxuries" or that they've got savings stashed away that can "trickle up" to shareholders. It doesn't really benefit the rich for the poor to have any kind of savings whatsoever, it's advantageous that they don't in many ways - people living wage to wage, everything on uncompetitive credit, payday loans, terrified of asking for more pay or better conditions as losing the job means they're out on their behind.

I wouldn't be surprised if they've already run the figures on it and want to go ahead as overall it is to their benefit - there'll be enough middle-class savings to work through, the poor can be more easily forced onto smart meters (even if it takes months to get them fitted, the debt won't be forgotten and can come off there).

[Brad]

Is the energy crisis just a way to get us to net zero without actually doing any work?

[fishbowlhead]

Is the energy crisis just a way to get us to net zero without actually doing any work?

Net zero bank accounts? Yes its doing a great job.

[Neon Ignition]

More than 100,000 people join Don’t Pay UK in protest against energy price rises | UK cost of living crisis | The Guardian
DontPayUK hits 10% of its target so far and is rising fast

[huxley]

More than 100,000 people join Don’t Pay UK in protest against energy price rises | UK cost of living crisis | The Guardian
DontPayUK hits 10% of its target so far and is rising fast

Problem with that is the £400 drip feed will only be applied to accounts with direct debits set up, from what I understand.

Just looked at my OVO app and I have more money on there than I do in my bank at present. Just over £700!

[Neon Ignition]

Yep, loads of people are going to lose the Government money. If I'm being honest it feels like we're less likely headed toward teaching energy firms a lesson and more likely moving towards a situation where energy debt is treated like credit cards with huge interest applied and considered 'normal' to have

[Asura]

Yep, loads of people are going to lose the Government money. If I'm being honest it feels like we're less likely headed toward teaching energy firms a lesson and more likely moving towards a situation where energy debt is treated like credit cards with huge interest applied and considered 'normal' to have

Ultimately I'm worried that this is what will happen with DontPay. I'm worried I'll just massacre my credit score with no real benefit, and I don't have a mortgage yet.

It's all fine yelling "smash the system" but no-one's going to give me a house.