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The War in Ukraine

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    Yep. I feel that too.

    It's honestly bull**** after living two years of a pandemic.

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      Yeah, remember when we were all isolating due to Covid? Great days.

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        Originally posted by MartyG View Post
        Yeah, remember when we were all isolating due to Covid? Great days.
        Something to tell the grandkids for sure.

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          Yeah man. It's honestly a ****ing piss take.

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            Russia seems to have made little effort in respect to suppression or destruction of Ukraine's air defences. I wonder if that's meant a reluctance for close air support to these convoys and hence their lack of progress. Putin doesn't seem to know WTF he's doing. Is he one of these who doesn't listen to his generals and thinks he knows the art of war better than them I wonder.

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              Could be that one of the reasons Putin is even more irrationally pissy and expansionist than usual is Covid hit them harder than he let on. They were even more secretive than they normally are throughout the main portion of the epidemic, despite starting off bullish and him making a big show of injecting his daughter as public display of their fantastic vaccine. I think the poor girl's grown a second head since then.

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                Read a very clear and concise take down of Putin and all he stands for in Time:

                To understand Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, we have to see that he's an aging dictator acting out his death wish

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                  Originally posted by Wools View Post
                  Read a very clear and concise take down of Putin and all he stands for in Time:

                  https://time.com/6151377/putin-ukraine-attack-dictator/
                  Adam Curtis's documentaries quoted people back earlier in his career, saying Putin's most electable quality is that he "believes in nothing". Like he doesn't stand for anything other than a classic image of a powerful Russian man.

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                    Had the British Left gone mad over this? All I’m seeing on Twitter are “NATO caused this”, “it’s the EU’s fault”, “if you support Ukraine you want WW3” and “what about Palestine” hot takes. It’s like they’ve all been infected with Putin’s brainworms.

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                      Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post
                      Had the British Left gone mad over this? All I’m seeing on Twitter are “NATO caused this”, “it’s the EU’s fault”, “if you support Ukraine you want WW3” and “what about Palestine” hot takes. It’s like they’ve all been infected with Putin’s brainworms.
                      As said above; be cautious. I'm certain some of these people are parroting Russia's PR. There's a serious misinformation campaign going on here.

                      It's important to remember that the west's involvement in Eastern Europe, or the Balkans, or the Middle-East, or the Far East, or Africa, or South America - these are stories written in broken promises and lies. Our countries have done terrible things to these people; the classic one being that the present borders of many nations in the Middle-East were drawn up by a bunch of British people who did so without any real understanding of the countries involved; which is why you end up with stuff like how the Kurds exist, with defined territory, but no country borders to define it.

                      Until relatively recently I hadn't appreciated just how many ****ty things our countries have done to these people, and then taught us, the present generations, so little about those actions. Like how Iran's former theocracy under its former Shah was a puppet regime created by the British. Or how the French and British, during a trade war with China, burned the Summer Palace to the ground after stealing everything that wasn't nailed down. Or how after WW2, the British told a large group of Russians opposed to communism who were based in the UK that had helped with the war, that they were being transported to a conference - when we took those people and gave them to Stalin, knowing he would execute them.

                      The fixation shouldn't so much be on that Putin doesn't trust NATO not to try and conquer Russia; it's more that it's a miracle that anyone trusts the prosperous western nations with anything, ever, at all. I mean even right this moment, we're ruled by a polticial party that was funded in part by Russian money.

                      This doesn't justify Putin's actions, and it is wrong to say that "expanding NATO" is at fault here (NATO doesn't "expand"; countries ask to join). But when you look at history, it's easy to see that how another nation views Britain, or France, or Germany, or the US, or Italy - that these can be very different to how we see ourselves and our organisations, and they're not simply wrong.

                      Many in "the left" are pacifists, and they want peace-at-any-price. It's an admirable goal. But it's an idealised view of humanity. We, as a species, are not ready for this. Not yet.
                      Last edited by Asura; 01-03-2022, 15:34.

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                        Yeah, I'd be very wary of putting any weight into those narratives. As Asura says, a lot of that seems to be coming from Russia's own propaganda machine.

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                          If only the vast majority of people weren't thick as **** *sigh*

                          Last edited by Brad; 01-03-2022, 15:39.

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                            There's always the 'what-about-ism' people too.
                            'The UK and US blew up Baghdad... Therefore Russia can do what they like!'

                            How about **** off?

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                              The EU parliament gave a standing ovation to Zelensky

                              Contrasted with...

                              The entire UN walked out on Russia's Foreign minister.

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