UK X: Who Wants To Live Forever

[Asura]

Nice of a sitting Labour MP to essentially claim that antisemitism isn’t a form of racism.

https://twitter.com/ProfDaveAndress/...4062608814089?

This whole thing is absolutely bizarre.

You've got to be really careful how you talk about "racism" in the public eye, because anyone who has been in these circles long enough surely knows there are two definitions of racism - a broader definition, and a sociological definition. The broader definition involves discriminating based on prejudice tied to race. The sociological relates to the power structures in society which cause racism to perpetuate (this latter one is where most of the arguments arise).

But even going by those standards, it still doesn't sit with what Abbot said.

Irish people were racially profiled, referred to as a race historically, and treated poorly because of it. People who would tick the "white" box on a census were "manacled on slave ships", some choosing to sell themselves into slavery for various reasons (not on the scale of African slaves, but they still existed!). Jewish people have been referred to as a race at various (terrible) points in European history; ditto for the traveler peoples.

How does a career politician not know this?

[Neon Ignition]

It's a blatantly obvious hole to fall into. Western nations typically take a common view on skin colour based racism because there's safety in numbers, as a predominantly white skinned group of nations the racism based on skin colour is heavily skewed. It's still possible for communities to be racist to white individuals though and in a multi-national population for someone to have experience or have come from a country where they have experienced racism for being white. It's massively less common place but it's purely to say that having an MP wade into that space is asking to get called out by someone and once that happens the media has their meat. That's before you get into the arena of all the other forms of racism that she's been called out on. Then, as a Corbyn supporting Labour MP... just the kiss of death to her career. She didn't even need to think heavily into any of the issues or angles on it. The sheer idea of downplaying any form in order to make your own experience sound more important is such a blatant misfire.

[QualityChimp]

Diane Abbott was the first black woman elected to parliament and was the longest-serving black MP in the House of Commons until today's events.

The press like to reduce her down to the woman drinking a can of G&T on the tube or Corbyn's ex or the one who got her numbers mixed up.

She's been subject to racist and sexist abuse all her political career:

https://metro.co.uk/2017/07/13/diane-abbott-reads-some-of-the-appalling-racist-and-sexist-abuse-she-receives-6775615/

"The shadow home secretary said she has been repeatedly labelled a ‘n*****’ while she unveiled the extent of ‘mindless abuse’ she has receives as an MP.

Ms Abbott is harassed via email and social media, and said the online attacks had got progressively worse in recent years.

Speaking during a Westminster Hall debate on the intimidation and abuse of candidates in elections, Ms Abbott said she had received rape and death threats, and had been described as an ‘ugly fat black bitch’ and a ‘n*****’.

Ms Abbott told the debate: ‘We are talking about mindless abuse and in my case the mindless abuse has been characteristically racist and sexist.

‘And just to outline I’ve had death threats, I’ve had people tweeting that I should be hung if ‘they could find a tree big enough to take the fat bitch’s weight’.

‘There was an EDL affiliated Twitter account #BurnDianeAbbott, I’ve had rape threats, described as a pathetic, useless fat black, piece of sh*t, ugly fat black bitch and n*****. N***** over and over again.’"

So, although I don't condone what she said in the Observer article, I can understand why someone who lives with racist abuse on a daily basis has a skewed perspective of how others might be targeted.

She's really got this one wrong.

[Lebowski]

Kier Starmer was seen skipping into parliament this morning singing "ive got a golden ticket"

he can finally purge Abbot form the party and remove another big Cobyn supporter.

[Nu-Eclipse]

Diane Abbott was the first black woman elected to parliament and was the longest-serving black MP in the House of Commons until today's events.

The press like to reduce her down to the woman drinking a can of G&T on the tube or Corbyn's ex or the one who got her numbers mixed up.

She's been subject to racist and sexist abuse all her political career:

https://metro.co.uk/2017/07/13/diane-abbott-reads-some-of-the-appalling-racist-and-sexist-abuse-she-receives-6775615/

"The shadow home secretary said she has been repeatedly labelled a ‘n*****’ while she unveiled the extent of ‘mindless abuse’ she has receives as an MP.

Ms Abbott is harassed via email and social media, and said the online attacks had got progressively worse in recent years.

Speaking during a Westminster Hall debate on the intimidation and abuse of candidates in elections, Ms Abbott said she had received rape and death threats, and had been described as an ‘ugly fat black bitch’ and a ‘n*****’.

Ms Abbott told the debate: ‘We are talking about mindless abuse and in my case the mindless abuse has been characteristically racist and sexist.

‘And just to outline I’ve had death threats, I’ve had people tweeting that I should be hung if ‘they could find a tree big enough to take the fat bitch’s weight’.

‘There was an EDL affiliated Twitter account #BurnDianeAbbott, I’ve had rape threats, described as a pathetic, useless fat black, piece of sh*t, ugly fat black bitch and n*****. N***** over and over again.’"

So, although I don't condone what she said in the Observer article, I can understand why someone who lives with racist abuse on a daily basis has a skewed perspective of how others might be targeted.

She's really got this one wrong.

Spot-on analysis.

Using history to compare and contrast racism really destroys what she was trying to say.

Kier Starmer was seen skipping into parliament this morning singing "ive got a golden ticket"

he can finally purge Abbot form the party and remove another big Cobyn supporter.

Pretty much the way we all know this is going. It'll almost certainly be used, and is now being used, to try and remove her from her Hackney North & Stoke Newington seat - a constituency that she's been MP for since 1987.

Starmer will almost certainly throw her out of Labour but I wouldn't be surprised if she announces that she'll stand down before the next General Election.

[Protocol Penguin]

Edit: why waste my time?

[Brad]

She picked a really bad example to compare and contrast against as being jewish is part ancestry, part religion. Do I think Diane Abbott is a good MP? No. Does she appear competent enough for the job ( appear - I have not, and will not take the time to analyse everything she's done or voted on )? No, not to me. Is she demonstrably worse at her job than anyone else in UK politics? Also no; she's no worse than the rest of them. An unfortunate soundbite will end her career, whereas far worse soundbites from Boris didn;t stop him becoming PM.

[Protocol Penguin]

Edit: gone.

[Lebowski]

keep your posts up dude your making some good points, It's hardly a free pass getting Sacked and removed from her party though

[Nu-Eclipse]

Genuinely didn't see what [MENTION=15749]Protocol Penguin[/MENTION] posted before he deleted, but let me be clear (if I haven't been already) that I don't agree with or condone what Diane Abbott said.

[Protocol Penguin]

Genuinely didn't see what [MENTION=15749]Protocol Penguin[/MENTION] posted before he deleted, but let me be clear (if I haven't been already) that I don't agree with or condone what Diane Abbott said.

Sorry. Sincere apologies.

I just find it disheartening to see people seemingly leap to give the individual the benefit of the doubt. We should not excuse any form of racism just because the perpetrator uses an “oh I’m the real victim here” type narrative. It’s not OK when people on the Right do that, neither should it be when it’s someone on the Left.

Antisemitism is racism, Jewish people were victims of the worst planned genocide in human history, and the British Left unfortunately continues to have a severe problem with hatred towards Jewish people.

[gunrock]

Dianne Abbott is wrong on this, for sure. I always liked her personally, even if she was sometimes ineffectual. The shame about this is she usually made pretty sound and eloquent arguments in the face of raging, spitting, condescending, right-wingers but here, she really has screwed the pooch.

[Nu-Eclipse]

Sorry. Sincere apologies.

I just find it disheartening to see people seemingly leap to give the individual the benefit of the doubt. We should not excuse any form of racism just because the perpetrator uses an “oh I’m the real victim here” type narrative. It’s not OK when people on the Right do that, neither should it be when it’s someone on the Left.

Antisemitism is racism, Jewish people were victims of the worst planned genocide in human history, and the British Left unfortunately continues to have a severe problem with hatred towards Jewish people.

I didn't leap to give her the benefit of anything. She was wrong to use the historical examples that she used in her letter.

Had she not used Jewish people in her letter and stuck to a modern-day context about racism happening here and now in the present day then she might've had a point (and even that's a stretch). But she did and her political career is highly likely to be ended because of it so that definitely isn't a free pass (something that, as [MENTION=10111]QualityChimp[/MENTION] rightly pointed out, Diane Abbott has definitely never had, especially when we've had a PM who was free to call Black people "p*********s with watermelon smiles" and Muslim women "letterboxes").

For full disclosure, I'm saying all of this as a Black man.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/apr/24/rishi-sunak-keir-starmer-james-cleverly-diane-abbott-huma-yousaf-uk-politics-live-latest

Starmer takes the expected line that feels like it's now teeing up the inevitable outcome

[Nu-Eclipse]

Fully expecting Abbott to go the Ardern and Sturgeon route of stepping down at the next GE, citing exhaustion after a near four-decade career as the first ever elected female Black British MP.