BPX078: Brexit - A Decade On

[Protocol Penguin]

If we get anything out of Brexit, the one thing I really hope we'll get in the UK is some sort of proportional representation in government.

It's going to do the opposite! The Tory government have already switched all future mayoral elections (inc. London) to FPTP. We actually had PR for European elections – remember, that's one less democratic process we're allowed to participate in. Imagine being a short boat ride from an economic powerhouse like the EU, and not only making trade with it far more difficult and expensive, but also chucking away any involvement in its democratic processes (and Britain often punched above its weight there; the largest groups in the European Parliament all had British MEPs leading them at some point).

[MartyG]

It was stupid then. It's even more stupid now.

[Golgo]

The fact that Cameron immediately ****ed off showed that he had no intention to implement Brexit, because it was a ****ing awful idea.

Well yeah, obviously. He was dead against Brexit and was defeated. Why would he hang around to implement it?

[charlesr]

Whilst I thought Brexit was a godawful idea, and seem to be right, is there anything positive that has happened yet? There must be something. We aren't joining the EU again any time soon, so we need to figure out how to make it work and quickly.

[CMcK]

The only positive I’ve found is it’s nice to get your passport stamped.

[MartyG]

Whilst I thought Brexit was a godawful idea, and seem to be right, is there anything positive that has happened yet? There must be something.

Erm, more people slowly realising it was a really stupid idea?

[Hirst]

Completely shut the door on my retirement plans to go live on an obscure Greek island, which was completely feasible within the EU rules.

Now it’s simply an impossibility as it requires either a minimum monthly income I’ve no chance of ever making (the current is more than I make now at work!) or a Golden Visa that costs 250K Euros. Complete pipe dream now.

I have zero intention of retiring in this dump, but all I can hope now is that some other country still has an achievable income requirement for retirees by the time I hit the age where I can.

[Anpanman]

Completely shut the door on my retirement plans to go live on an obscure Greek island, which was completely feasible within the EU rules.

Now it’s simply an impossibility as it requires either a minimum monthly income I’ve no chance of ever making (the current is more than I make now at work!) or a Golden Visa that costs 250K Euros. Complete pipe dream now.

I have zero intention of retiring in this dump, but all I can hope now is that some other country still has an achievable income requirement for retirees by the time I hit the age where I can.

Sorry to hear that, aye we love Greece. Went to Naxos about three years ago and it was an absolutely magical place, main reason was there was hardly any Brits there. No charter flights or package tours from here - complete bliss!

Not sure I'd personally like to retire there though Brexit or no, not clued up on their healthcare for one. Probably only way to get there if you are single is marry a Greek.

I'm not keen on retiring here also, place is going down the plughole. I looked at Australia for retirees and if I remember correctly they wanted £50k from all pensions to settle there.

I don't know enough on this but... if Brexit is so bad and everybody is up in arms then why aren't Labour and perhaps the Lib Dems or others promising to re-vote and get us back in. Perhaps there has to be so many years to wait, but surely they could use this as a selling point. You would think Starmer for all his savvy would know an arse has been made and for the good of the country promise to get us back asap.

[Nu-Eclipse]

I don't know enough on this but... if Brexit is so bad and everybody is up in arms then why aren't Labour and perhaps the Lib Dems or others promising to re-vote and get us back in. Perhaps there has to be so many years to wait, but surely they could use this as a selling point. You would think Starmer for all his savvy would know an arse has been made and for the good of the country promise to get us back asap.

Because the discourse around it has become that toxic that bringing it back up again has become politically poisonous when it shouldn't be. There's no chance that Labour put rejoining the EU on the table when they are close to taking power from the Tories - doing so would likely give the Tories all the ammo they need to energise the right. Even the Lib-Dems aren't openly speaking about it anymore.

It'll likely be decades before the topic of rejoining can be realistically debated, if that.

[Asura]

I don't know enough on this but... if Brexit is so bad and everybody is up in arms then why aren't Labour and perhaps the Lib Dems or others promising to re-vote and get us back in. Perhaps there has to be so many years to wait, but surely they could use this as a selling point. You would think Starmer for all his savvy would know an arse has been made and for the good of the country promise to get us back asap.

Because the discourse around it has become that toxic that bringing it back up again has become politically poisonous when it shouldn't be. There's no chance that Labour put rejoining the EU on the table when they are close to taking power from the Tories - doing so would likely give the Tories all the ammo they need to energise the right. Even the Lib-Dems aren't openly speaking about it anymore.

It'll likely be decades before the topic of rejoining can be realistically debated, if that.

Yep. Plus, there's another factor - as a prominent founding member of the EU, we had something of a priviledged position in the bloc (consider how we stayed in, despite not having joined the Euro) and were considered an important member due to London's status as Europe's largest financial centre (which may no longer be the case).

That cache is now empty. If we join, we start building that relationship "from the ground up". For example, they might insist we join the Euro.

I'm a remainer through and though. A remoaner, some might say. But I'm also of the opinion that now we've left, we've left. Those who made the decision have ****ed up and found out, and we can't just walk that change back. I don't think we can realistically go back unless an overwhelming majority of the public backs it (like, in a hypothetical referendum, it would be >75% of the electorate would vote for it) because there'd be the fear that we would flip flop back again in another 10 years.

Economies value stability, and that's one of the main things Brexit has killed.

[Protocol Penguin]

Labour won’t talk about Brexit because Corbyn took the party back to old-style statist, protectionist socialism, which Starmer still sticks to, despite popular misconception. The old fashioned Labour radical left such as Tony Benn were always extremely europhobic as they saw the EEC/EU as preventing Britain having a state-controlled planned economy (well, and their generally anti-western worldview). Labour is still stuck in that rut. And remember, the trade unions who fund Labour mostly wanted Brexit.

Oh, and the more everyone repeats “we’re out, we have to stay out”, the more supposed Remain voters become soft Leavers, the harder it’ll be to rejoin in some form; it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Leaving the EU, and in the extreme manner it happened, was once fringe politics pushed by radicals, remember. Returning to it, even just as a EEA member, can still happen in our lifetimes. The economic collapse and longer term decline of the UK is going to make rapprochement with Europe an absolute necessity at some point.

[QualityChimp]

Please be aware that this poll is advisory-only and will not be actioned without consultation, especially if it is a really close result.

Say, 51.9% either way.

[Neon Ignition]

2014 - Public Concern Increasing Over Immigration See's UKIP Voted To First Place In European Elections
Was immigration a genuine concern in 2014 or id UKIP and the media entirely manufacture a crisis?

[charlesr]

Daily Mail did it

[Cassius_Smoke]

The EU were a convient scape goat. Successive governments pinned all kinds of stuff on them to either pass blame or use as a way to force through policy. It's backfired because they then asked the people 'Do you hate the EU?' And everyone said yes. They've lost their scape goat. Now they are trying to whip up hate for trans to replace it with.