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**Neon Ignition** · 25-09-2024, 12:02

I know it's seen as a controversial arena for any political party to get involved in but for me a major driver remains the right wing press which is given far, far too much sway in discourse for a media that is on its knees. The rules around journalism need changing, we've seen far too many cases in the last decade and more where outlets are essentially propaganda.

There might be Opinion pieces and a right or left wing site or paper can put what they want in it, it's largely driven by the audience choosing to engage in that. The news is the news though, its a reporting of known facts and no need for spin. If Labour make a controversial decision, that's fine to report on and highlight but five years of dogpiling at every little thing after 14 years of hand waving Tory corruption and trying to influence elections in their favour is outright something that needs to be stemmed.

**QualityChimp** · 25-09-2024, 12:36

100% agree with this.
Not only do you get the initial reports from the tabloids seeking sales by having sensational headlines, but the knock-on effect is that other news outlets have to report on it, thinking it's news, so you get the Daily Mail exaggerating a story, then Jeremy Vine has a phone in, This Morning has a discussion about it, Good Morning Britain have a debate about it, then because it's in the public consciousness, serious news outlets have to pick it up too.

I saw on Good Morning Britain today, the news strapline was "Kier Starmer refuses to apologise for cutting OAP heating allowance".
It's not something he should be apologising for and he's not cut all pensioners' allowance.

As Brad says, it's not a perfect system, but it's a start.

**Nu-Eclipse** · 25-09-2024, 15:10

Originally posted by QualityChimp View Post

I saw on Good Morning Britain today, the news strapline was "Kier Starmer refuses to apologise for cutting OAP heating allowance".
It's not something he should be apologising for and he's not cut all pensioners' allowance.

Starmer's only got himself to blame.

It's a sh1t decision and it's laughable that people actually think it'll do anything more than shave pennies off of this supposed "bLaCk HoLe dEbt!1!1!1" that the media reported about for months on end beforehand and that Labour blatantly were aware of when they were the opposition Shadow Cabinet nobody knew about whatsoever. People aren't going to drink the Kool-Aid on this one no matter how hard Keir and his acolytes try - not when we're still the sixth largest economy on the planet.

Admitting he got this wrong and reversing this and the two-child benefit cap is pretty much the only way this is going to stop. People voted for change, not Austerity v2.0.

**Brad** · 25-09-2024, 15:21

Originally posted by Nu-Eclipse View Post

it's laughable that people actually think it'll do anything more than shave pennies off of this supposed "bLaCk HoLe dEbt!1!1!1"

Winter fuel payments cost about £2billion a year. If half (as an example) the pensioners don't need it then in their first term this claws back £4billion of that black hole. That's not pennies.

It's at this point in their tenure that they can make decisions the public don't like (usually because the public don't understand fully due to the right wing press as neon pointed out) but that have an actual impact. In election year they'll have to be more worried about public perception.

Being aware of the nations debt shouldn't have stopped Labour from wanting to get into power and they can only report on that fact when they're in power and can see the figures for themselves, not because the daily mail said so. It's not like Musk offering to buy Twitter and then finding out half the users are bots and then saying "nah, I'll leave it". We're talking about running a country.

**Protocol Penguin** · 26-09-2024, 10:18

Starmer’s Covid broadcast urging work from home recorded in donor’s £18m penthouse

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-covid-broadcast-donations-b2619234.html

The Christmas broadcast aired on December 13 2021, the same day new Covid guidance urging people to work from home came into force.

Boris Johnson style open corruption. “One rule for me, other rules for thee” indeed.

**Nu-Eclipse** · 26-09-2024, 12:39

Originally posted by Brad View Post

Winter fuel payments cost about £2billion a year. If half (as an example) the pensioners don't need it then in their first term this claws back £4billion of that black hole. That's not pennies.

Yes, it absolutely is pennies. It's crumbs in the grand context of a supposed "black hole" that they somehow didn't know about when everybody else did and THEY were the Shadow Cabinet. I'll also remind you that they magically found money to instantly pay public workers in line with inflation.

Originally posted by Brad View Post

It's at this point in their tenure that they can make decisions the public don't like (usually because the public don't understand fully due to the right wing press as neon pointed out) but that have an actual impact. In election year they'll have to be more worried about public perception.

Starmer and Streeting just about held on to their seats in the GE, with FPTP saving them (no wonder they don't want voting reform!). At some point in this term of government, there will likely be by-elections so taking public perception for granted in an era where Farage has his foot in the door could be wholly catastrophic with such poor decisions like this.

As you yourself said, people don't actually like Starmer. They've just had enough of Tory rule. The electorate could just as easily take away the majority they've given Labour.

Originally posted by Brad View Post

Being aware of the nations debt shouldn't have stopped Labour from wanting to get into power and they can only report on that fact when they're in power and can see the figures for themselves, not because the daily mail said so. It's not like Musk offering to buy Twitter and then finding out half the users are bots and then saying "nah, I'll leave it". We're talking about running a country.

Again, I don't know what to tell you. The wider mainstream media reported for ages on the supposed "black hole" and yet you expect us to believe that the Labour Shadow Cabinet were the only ones who had no idea. Sorry, the suspension of disbelief needed for that is simply not possible and Starmer deserves the pelters he's getting for it. Until he changes course, it'll continue and it serves him right.

**Brad** · 26-09-2024, 12:40

Originally posted by Protocol Penguin View Post

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2619234.html
Boris Johnson style open corruption. “One rule for me, other rules for thee” indeed.

The broadcast 'aired' on the day the rules came into play. When was it recorded? Because in the days before the rule came into play I was gallivanting all over the place.
The article is also broken in a number of ways, making it difficult to understand the timeline.

**Brad** · 26-09-2024, 12:45

Originally posted by Nu-Eclipse View Post

Yes, it absolutely is pennies. It's crumbs in the grand context of a supposed "black hole" that they somehow didn't know about when everybody else did and THEY were the Shadow Cabinet. I'll also remind you that they magically found money to instantly pay public workers in line with inflation.

The 'black hole' is £22billion. £4billion is almost 20% of that black hole. 20% of a load of bread is about 6 slices, not crumbs.

**Neon Ignition** · 30-09-2024, 08:05

Baby Reindeer was wrongly billed by Netflix as a ‘true story’, judge finds | Baby Reindeer | The Guardian

Jenrick tells Tory conference it’s ‘leave or die’ as he ramps up calls for UK to exit ECHR – UK politics live (theguardian.com)
The Tories - Still not even a toe in the right direction

**charlesr** · 30-09-2024, 08:45

"Our party’s survival rests on restoring our credibility on immigration. If we continue to duck and dance around this question our party has no future".
Only the million people a day that read the Daily Mail care about immigration. That's not going to win an election

**QualityChimp** · 30-09-2024, 10:56

I laughed outloud to Good Morning Britain when they were reporting from the Tory party conference and they asked if it was missing something without Boris Johnson there.
The one guy said "it's like a village is missing its idiot."