The AI Thread | Ringfencing the discussion

[Asura]

In that case though, maybe there will need to be some sort of precedent established for how much AI can contribute to an image before it's not considered transformative. Because otherwise you could render the image with AI, flip it laterally and say you chose to do that.

[MartyG]

Where it originates from is not really relevant - it just needs to be transformative enough for it to be considered an original work. The definitions of what is transformative already has precedence. I'd imagine mirroring an image is unlikely to count.

"The reproduction of a part which by itself has no originality will not normally be a substantial part of the copyright and therefore will not be protected.” (Ladbroke (Football) Ltd v William Hill (Football) Ltd 1964) 1 WLR 273.)

Remember that image of the macaque? The photographer didn't get the copyright of that photo, but there are derivative works from that image that now do have copyright from their creators.

[Dogg Thang]

Point is, it’s too unclear right now, especially with the only ruling to date being that the AI work was not copyrightable. I deal with this sort of thing all the time and who would win in a court case doesn’t hugely matter - that’s not even the point. The danger is whether it is unclear enough to be contested. So for example, if you hire someone to draw a picture for you, that’s work for hire and you own it. That’s how it works. But any company worth a damn will still get that artist to assign all rights and copyright to them because, regardless of who would win, the danger of the ownership being contested is too great without it being locked down. The moment ownership is contested, regardless of who is in the right, you’ve got a problem and often a very expensive one. Right now, the ownership of an AI-generated image or text is too risky. The author of the work is the AI and even if the AI company assigns you the rights, it’s too messy right now.

[fuse]

https://www-businessinsider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.businessinsider.com/marc-andreessen-horowitz-ai-copyright-2023-11?amp

Andreessen Horowitz is warning that billions of dollars in AI investments could be worth a lot less if companies developing the technology are forced to pay for the copyrighted data that makes it work.

The VC firm said AI investments are so huge that any new rules around the content used to train models "will significantly disrupt" the investment community's plans and expectations around the technology, according to comments submitted to the US Copyright Office.


"The bottom line is this," the firm, known as a16z, wrote. "Imposing the cost of actual or potential copyright liability on the creators of AI models will either kill or significantly hamper their development."

Tried to write a comment to follow this but just found myself cycling between emotions of rage, frustration, amusement, and complete futility.

[gunrock]

All of my posts have been AI... since 2003!

[Neon Ignition]

The legalities around AI will get sorted out in relatively short timing and a lot of the victories being scored at the moment in trying to fend off its bulldozing into a multitude of industries and jobs won't last.

AI will ultimately decimate the jobs sector




Corporate giants battle for supremacy over rivals will ensure it

[Asura]

AI will ultimately decimate the jobs sector

And that'd be fine, if we made a big shift to UBI, killed all the billionaires and forcibly took their money and redistributed it, and the rest.

Maybe that's how we put this off for a bit. Just tell the billionaires that once AI has replaced jobs, we won't need them anymore, and honestly, we ****ing hate them, so...

[Dogg Thang]

And that'd be fine, if we made a big shift to UBI, killed all the billionaires and forcibly took their money and redistributed it, and the rest.

Maybe that's how we put this off for a bit. Just tell the billionaires that once AI has replaced jobs, we won't need them anymore, and honestly, we ****ing hate them, so...

Yep. Ultimately this is what it comes down to. AI isn’t the problem. In a working society, it could hugely help us. It could be wonderful. But not under the systems we’re in right now.

[fuse]

For some reason my mind came back to a thread I saw on Twitter a few weeks back, and I figured while I was making myself miserable I'd bring some of the rest of you along for the ride. No need to thank me. Given Twitter is increasingly rubbish at letting people see content on there, I'll also summarise:

Human posts, stating how easily people take things at face value, and as such, AI has managed to completely ruin a corner of the internet that celebrated a hobby that they're interested in: crochet patterns. Clearly AI-made images that are not even vaguely feasible in yarn have been getting shared, people (potentially bots?) re-share and boost them entirely uncritically, and these spaces that used to encourage exchanging of art, sharing of techniques and so on become totally useless, as real makers cannot compete, recognise the sham for what it is, and leave. This also drives scammy paid-for patterns that are also AI-generated or just outright stolen from legitimate artists.

Here's the kicker: someone in the replies shares one of those super charming Yoshi's Woolly World shorts! The original poster watches it and shares that they are delighted by this! Only... the "verified" poster who shared it also claimed to be a "develop at Nintendo" who made the game, and whose profile claims they're the "founder of #Bitcoin". Later claims include "I invented Nintendo Labo" and "I was the (note: singular!) environment artist on Demon's Souls".

So yeah: person who is mad at AI ruining things in their area of expertise then proceeds to get entirely blindsided by a likely-AI, definitively fake account the second the topic steps outside of that area of expertise, highlighting how there's now just layers upon layers of misinformation making the internet unusable and ****, fooling even well-intentioned and vigilant folks.

[Dogg Thang]

I’m not sure if I voiced it here but I currently believe that AI will be the downfall of the internet as we know it. We will just shutter it and leave it and, instead, the future of our online interactions will be confined to small gated communities (not unlike this one, I guess). Two main reasons. The first is your experience above - AI has only really exploded in the last year or so and yet, already, it’s easy to see that it’s breaking the internet. AI posts, AI results, AI articles, AI images are already taking the place of real ones and the speed at which AI content can be generated versus actual human content means that the internet will just be overwhelmed and everything becomes useless. Forget trying to do an image search or find out actual information because the clutter of AI content will make it impossible to find.

The other thing will be a by-product of something I think AI will be great for, a real quality of life improvement. Already AI can sum up google chats if you miss them. I think we’ll see that sort of thing everywhere. We’ll wake up and just ask our AI to summarise our emails, summarise anything interesting that happened on Twitter while I was asleep, give me the news headlines and so on. The difficulty there is what happens to business models. When the only things actually visiting the sources are the AI, the ad supported models don’t work because there is no human traffic. So the sources for much of that information won’t be able to exist for all that long. The obvious solution is that they make deals with the AI companies but I don’t see that happening en masse and in a way that generates enough revenue to keep many alive. I don’t think the current internet will survive. It will be a forgotten room where AI sends itself content unaware that we’ve long since left it.

Unrelated to that but relevant to the copyright discussions above, I recently signed a job contract for some artwork with a huge media company (one of the hugest) and it had a clause on AI basically saying that, if you use AI and it in any way hinders their claim to the copyright of what is produced, they will unleash unholy lawyer vengeance upon you.

[Neon Ignition]

If that was to happen I'm not sure what humans would do. Their jobs will have been annihilated by automation and AI and so if we had to rethink our whole outlook on working lives we could end up at home in a situation where even the internet isn't an option. You couldn't spend your time doing most of the things you love because most of the companies that make the supplies, products, services will have folded as it will be a nightmare to market yourself and remain viable.

On the flipside, there's the potential that Bordersdown coudl outlive the internet itself

[Dogg Thang]

On the flipside, there's the potential that Bordersdown coudl outlive the internet itself

It's possible.

I just got an email in from a company asking to meet so they can pitch me their "voice cloning" work. Apparently they worked on Luke's voice in The Mandalorian but there's something slightly creepy even about the basic pitch. Have a voice actor you like? We can clone them for you so you will never need to rely on them again.

[Neon Ignition]

I'm not even sure how such companies like that will even survive, it'll be a hot minute till stuff like that can be done endlessly by anyone via a phone app

[Dogg Thang]

I'm not even sure how such companies like that will even survive, it'll be a hot minute till stuff like that can be done endlessly by anyone via a phone app

This is exactly it.

[Asura]

I'm not even sure how such companies like that will even survive, it'll be a hot minute till stuff like that can be done endlessly by anyone via a phone app

Yeah, this is the bit.

I see a lot of people in graphic design areas online, saying "you need to learn how to prompt, you'll be left behind if you don't".

I have some sympathy. But at the same time, I'm familiar with how all the tools work and have been keeping up with them; and I can see that in 12 months, all the "work" involved will be eradicated. Like right now, it's true, prompting is a skill, of sorts - knowing how to poke and prod AI tools so they spit out what you want, without having to do a hundred iterations, it is something you can practice at, get better at.

But in 12 months the tools will advance and all that you've learned will be automated, and that "skill" will be useless.