Champions League

[Nu-Eclipse]

Did you not watch the first leg vs Real?

Did you not watch both legs of Bayern vs. Barca? Did you not watch Bayern's 1st leg against Arsenal?

(See, I can be pedantic too!)

Pound-for-pound, Bayern have simply performed consistently better than Dortmund both domestically and in the Champions' League.

[nakamura]

You are just selective. The second leg of the CL was the first game that Dortmund lost in the competition this season. They also won a group with the English and Spanish champions in it. Bayern have also been impressive but were beyond woeful in the second leg against Arsenal. Dortmund were not poor against Real on Tuesday and very unlucky not to take the lead when they hit the bar.

I would agree that Bayern are a better side. But the performances this season, certainly in the CL are much closer than you say so.

[saturn-gamer]

Yep, really glad someone has kicked tippy tappy Barca into touch. Just wish more teams would have actually got stuck in and had a go at them.



Great to watch Munich and Dortmund as well to be fair. Can't see anything but a Munich win though. Much rather watch these two going for it than B&M.

The problem with Barca though is that they have not a good bench. If we're a bit fair towards them, they had to play without Messi, Puyol, Busquets, Mascherano and Alba. Thats exactly half of their squad bar the keeper. Their problem is that they have to replace those with Bartra, Song, Fabregas and Sanchez (those 2 are woeful since they joined Barca), thats not a really great side and especially not against a Bayern Munich which is on a tour of destruction.

Still, PSG with its superstars couldn't beat this side. And Milan couldn't as well. Bayern was the worst team they could draw, those guys have their best season ever right now. But I do think the blaugranas reign is coming to an end. Their key players are getting older and less hungry for success, other teams won't hold back as much. The Milan home game might turn out to be their last glimpse of excellence.

[Nu-Eclipse]

You are just selective.

LOL. And you're not? Not sure how you can call me selective when you started off by picking out a single example of a Dortmund CL match. Hypocrite much?

The second leg of the CL was the first game that Dortmund lost in the competition this season. They also won a group with the English and Spanish champions in it. Bayern have also been impressive but were beyond woeful in the second leg against Arsenal. Dortmund were not poor against Real on Tuesday and very unlucky not to take the lead when they hit the bar.

I would agree that Bayern are a better side. But the performances this season, certainly in the CL are much closer than you say so.

Bayern had the 2nd round Arsenal tie won at the Emirates. They made the classic mistake of trying to contain Arsenal instead of killing them off with goals in the 2nd leg (their outstanding home record in European competition shows that the 2nd leg result was very much an exception and not a rule). They won't be the last team to make that mistake in the Champions' League. Bayern have since been imperious, crushing Juventus and Barcelona en route to the Final.

Dortmund were unconvincing against Shaktar Donetsk 1st leg of their 2nd round tie, drawing 2-2 away. Their performance against Malaga in the quarters was arguably even worse than Bayern's 2nd leg against Arsenal. Dortmund shouldn't even still be in the tournament - that they are is largely down to huge fortune and piss-poor officiating, as even Klopp himself admitted afterwards.

Bayern's domestic encounters against Dortmund this season are hugely significant - they have finally figured out how to play Dortmund (back-to-back Bundesliga winners), something clearly borne out by the fact that Dortmund haven't recorded a win against them this season in cup or league.

Throw in other factors like Bayern's clearly superior squad and strength-in-depth, and there's only one winner. Of course it can be different on the night, but Bayern won't be under the pressure of playing at home and they are clearly hungry to win that elusive 5th European Cup. The onus will definitely be on Dortmund to come with something different, and I don't believe that they'll be able to.

[saturn-gamer]

Still, a CL final is a different beast and so much factors will be at play such as all eyes on Bayern while Dortmund will be the dark horse. Bayern Munich are clear cut favourites, but if favourites win every time Bayern would've been defending champions right now.

I don't think I want them to win their 5th cup. I'd rather not have them pass Ajax' 4 cups. On the other hand, Robben is a cock but losing a world cup final and 2 CL finals already is just a cruel career.

[nakamura]

Bayern do seem to have a nice team spirit so I don't mind if they win but I do want Dortmund to do it and they have every chance.

[saturn-gamer]

Both teams have entertained me the most of all clubs in Europe. Both go by financial fair play which should not be overlooked. I think they should be an example of how to run a football club.

[nakamura]

I agree entirely.

[Nu-Eclipse]

I don't think I want them to win their 5th cup. I'd rather not have them pass Ajax' 4 cups. On the other hand, Robben is a cock but losing a world cup final and 2 CL finals already is just a cruel career.

As a Liverpool fan who has no idea when his team will return to Europe's premier club football cup competition, I find myself agreeing with you there. Don't really want them to equal Liverpool's 5.

Both teams have entertained me the most of all clubs in Europe. Both go by financial fair play which should not be overlooked. I think they should be an example of how to run a football club.

Said it before, will say it again and will keep on saying it: Bayern are by miles the best run of the big clubs in world football.

Dortmund are well run these days, but they weren't always - they nearly went to the wall a couple of years ago. They had to change their ways.

[saturn-gamer]

Yep, for the good. I believe the squad that won their first championship after their comeback cost about 10 million total. Kagawa was bought for 300k for instance. Lewandowski cost 4 million or so.

But thats also just luck if a player bombs or not, we bought Suarez for like 1.2 million euros as well (although hes probably worth no more than that right now, heh).

[Nu-Eclipse]

1-1 between Dortmund and Bayern in the Bundesliga earlier today.

Dortmund still couldn't get their first win against Bayern today, despite Bayern virtually fielding a reserve team.

Bayern to give Dortmund a real hiding at Wembley if they score early doors, imho.

[EJG1980]

Hmm, interesting: a few journalists are reporting that UEFA will announce tomorrow that, from 2015-16, the winners of the Europa League will qualify for the following season's Champions League. That should make everyone start taking it a bit more seriously! I'd like to see them end "relegation" from the Champions League group stages into the Europa League too, but one step at a time.

[saturn-gamer]

Europa league needs to go back to the old UEFA Cup format. No group stage, and no CL losers. It was a nice competition for teams below the national elites.

[Nu-Eclipse]

Europa league needs to go back to the old UEFA Cup format. No group stage, and no CL losers. It was a nice competition for teams below the national elites.

This.

CL place for EL winners just devalues both competitions further.

[EJG1980]

It'd be nice but it's never going to happen. I think there's more chance of them melding the Europa League and Champions League into one big competition than them going back to the classic UEFA Cup format.

I personally don't think giving the EL winner a CL spot devalues the competition that much. At least it's a reward for success, be the best in Cup B and next season you get a chance in Cup A.

By far the worst thing is the Champions League losers being parachuted in to the Europa League and essentially rewarding multiple teams for failure. That really does need to go (but again, I wouldn't be holding my breath).