Devil May Cry 3

[Saurian]

Exactly the same thing happened with Viewtiful Joe aswell - the stages in Viewtiful Joe 2 are progression and puzzle orientated, not the manic score attack Rainbow V rank run madness you got in the first game. Luckily the system in Viewtiful Joe 2 wasnt tampered with - they built upon it and it's flawlessly executed, but the dumbed down stage design with far less emphasis on fighting totally doesnt suit it.

Viewtiful Joe is another game that these ****wits really missed out on.

Dare I say it? Unskilled casual gamers.
Incidentally the people that worked on DM2 (Capcom Production Studio 1) made DMC3! DMC1 was done by Capcom Production Studio 4.

I dont agree - it's the majority of people on web forums who are the most vocal and willing to give feedback on this stuff - they're also the first people to slate games just because they arent skilled at them.

Games these days arent difficult AT ALL - just try playing some of the 8-bit or even 16-bit stuff you remember battering easily as a kid and see what happens! I recently been messing about on Ghouls and Ghosts, I used to finish it on 1 life but now I cant even PASS stage 2! X_X

[Mardigan8]

And we will no doubt see a similair thing occur with the sublime Killer7. Hating on **** that they not even trying to understand... mingin!!

Games this good aren't effortless on the gamers part, they become so good because you put something into them!!

[eastyy]

I and many people would never complain if a game is to hard unless its unfairly hard.But its very rare to get a game thats unfairly hard

I agree with dmc3 its one of the most indepth action games i think i have everr played.With the different styles and weapons and of course the various techniques.There is probably 4 games worth of things in it.

I have always felt if the combat in a action game was good enough they could probably get away with very few levels purely because the combat was so good.Dmc 3 if it had only 5 levels it would still be great

Also it has some of my fav cutscenes OF ALL TIME

[venom743]

Exactly the same thing happened with Viewtiful Joe aswell - the stages in Viewtiful Joe 2 are progression and puzzle orientated, not the manic score attack Rainbow V rank run madness you got in the first game. Luckily the system in Viewtiful Joe 2 wasnt tampered with - they built upon it and it's flawlessly executed, but the dumbed down stage design with far less emphasis on fighting totally doesnt suit it.

Viewtiful Joe is another game that these ****wits really missed out on.


I dont agree - it's the majority of people on web forums who are the most vocal and willing to give feedback on this stuff - they're also the first people to slate games just because they arent skilled at them.

Games these days arent difficult AT ALL - just try playing some of the 8-bit or even 16-bit stuff you remember battering easily as a kid and see what happens! I recently been messing about on Ghouls and Ghosts, I used to finish it on 1 life but now I cant even PASS stage 2! X_X

Okay mate, I'll rephrase. "Unskilled gamers".

Agree with the difficulty of modern games. They aren't difficult compared to the old stuff.

[eastyy]

The lack of saving your place in the 8/16bit days made games alot harder to .
Was it in ghouls and ghosts that you actually had to complete the game twice?

[venom743]

The lack of saving your place in the 8/16bit days made games alot harder to .
Was it in ghouls and ghosts that you actually had to complete the game twice?

Yeah that's the one!

[Saurian]

I used to 1 life that **** going through twice (2nd time carrying the special weapon through the whole game). Now just thinking about doing that makes my brain hurt - but back then it was nothing.

You dont have to be so perfect and exacting in games anymore and they are not even remotely as unforgiving. Same like R-Type and Salamander, back in the day it wasnt a problem - I didnt even think finishing them was anything special but now it's fffphheaar!!11

[Mardigan8]

Years ago they didnt have the ability or the tech to give games such varying layers of difficulty, the only variables they had back then would be things like ammunition, damage taken and ****. Plus the lack of save is a big factor!!

Nowadays a game, like DMC3, creates a beautifully complex system for managing the game and it gets slated... no, am afraid that cant be allowed. It makes massive leaps forward in technical brilliance and gets largely unoticed. The justice is non existent!!

People mistake DMC3 for an unforgiving game because they dont bother to put something into it. I have heard my copy weep and moan like a bitch on plenty of occasions, hehe. The blinkers are well and truly stapled to many peoples nutz.

Put simply, DMC3 asks you a question on several occasions... Have. You. Got. The. Stones?? Many do not 8)

[E. Randy Dupre]

See, I agree with an awful lot of what you three are saying, I really do. I mean, I loves me some R-Type and GnG. They're probably more about memory than they are skill - you spend more time memorising attack patterns and wave formations than you do finessing your actual control over your character's movement - but, even so, they can feel really empowering. Get killed by some sneaky little bastard appearing from behind you on your first attempt. Next time you know he's going to do it again, so you're prepared, you're in position, and as soon as he pops his ugly mug out, you've got him right where you want him. You're in control and it feels and looks ball-achingly cool.

And I can see that same thing on DMC3. I love the sense of control that you've got over Dante and the freedom you're provided to express your own style on the thing. That's all superb. But what I've found pissing me off is the overly punishing nature of the lives/continues system here (and bear in mind that I'm playing the PAL version). I don't want to spend hard-earned cash on an extra life when I could be powering up some moves instead, but if I don't, then a death - and death's inevitable when you first come up against most of the bosses, yeah? - means that if I've not got a continue in reserve, I've got to go right back to the beginning of the mission and trudge through all the puzzles yet again.

That's where DMC3 is entirely different from something like R-Type or GnG. If I fail a section on those games, not only am I not sent right back to the beginning of the level, but even if I was I wouldn't have to force myself to go through the motions again. Killing **** will *always* be fun, but having to go through all the backtracking again just so that I can pick up item X again, then take it to door A to get item Y, and so on - that feels like a chore, like a job of work. I want to own those bosses, totally humiliate them, but the game forces me to take a long break from them - puts too much distance between us - whenever I die during the process of learning their attacks.

That said, I realise that I could have solved this by getting the JPN version, but I've only got a PAL PS2.

[Mardigan8]

Randy, I to have the PAL version and had the same problem as you. The continue system in PAL land is totally ****ed and is nonsense compared to its Jap counterpart. On first play with each boss I spent time measuring up there patterns so I was prepared when I felt it was time to unleash I done this through having vitality stars ready to keep me in the fight if I was getting pwnd.

Agreed it is a poor continue change for PAL but is doesn't change the fact about the game teaching you things. There is very little exploring in DMC3 or back tracking required so having to re-do a section never gets dull, its just more time to play with Dante, IMO.

It aint the most encouraging continue system ever employed but when the action is this great I dont see there being any reason to complain. If you REPEATEDLY getting blootered by a boss then that aint the games fault

But yeah, Jap boys do have it good with the continue stuff.

[E. Randy Dupre]

It aint the most encouraging continue system ever employed but when the action is this great I dont see there being any reason to complain. If you REPEATEDLY getting blootered by a boss then that aint the games fault

Heh. True enough. Maybe I'm just impatient - if I get hammered by a boss the first time I meet it, then I want to be straight back in there, hammering the **** out of it with my new-found knowledge right away, without any pause inbetween, giving the it the sort of verbal abuse that'd make Con Smith blush

It's all about the bosses, for me - observing their behaviour, learning how they react in every situation and then making a mockery of them. Anything that gets in the way of that = bad. So much so that it can get to the point where I'll switch the PS2 off and play something else instead

<edit> Y'know, thinking about it, I haven't even been spending any orbs on vitality stars. Possibly I should start doing that, load myself up before facing off against a new boss for the first time. It's just that more cash on health = a longer wait before I can kit myself up with that new move I've been saving up for.

[Mardigan8]

<edit> Y'know, thinking about it, I haven't even been spending any orbs on vitality stars. Possibly I should start doing that, load myself up before facing off against a new boss for the first time. It's just that more cash on health = a longer wait before I can kit myself up with that new move I've been saving up for.

Totally man, on my first run through and a wee bit on Hard, I made sure I ahd a couple of vitality stars for the boss encounters. Gives you those extra few minutes to see everything they got and prepare for the next encounter. Dont forget being able to replay beaten levels to get moe orbs and experience... this is invaluable for ensuring you have all you need for later encounters.

After normal, hard, 50% DMD play through and endless boss repeats I have everything maxed and around 500,000 orbs sitting there For me now DMC is all about going back through the bosses and schooling them, there is nothing better than taking down a boss without getting hit, its just feels far too powerful!!

The boss obesession is there if the player wants it... many have been broken on the journey, hehe!!

Know exactly what you mean about getting that elusive new move or style upgrade, its like getting a new toy

[E. Randy Dupre]

Dont forget being able to replay beaten levels to get moe orbs and experience... this is invaluable for ensuring you have all you need for later encounters.

I'm trying not to do that too much right now. It feels a bit like power levelling in something like Phantom Brave - necessary to get yourself beefed up a little before trying to make progress again, but if you do it too much you can break the balance. I still want it to be challenging, don't want to get hold of too much stuff too early and make bits of it too easy as a result.

That's why I was avoiding using vitality stars during the earlier parts of the game (and probably why I ended up forgetting that they even existed) - if you've got that many that you can just heal your way through a battle, you don't tend to learn the boss properly. Same as using continues in stuff like Gradius V - you just end up battering the end of level guardian into submission without any style or grace.

Actually, going back to what Saur was saying about people not understanding games and slagging them as a result, it's the same sort of thing. How many people bitched on about, say, Psyvariar being too short or too easy, because they'd stuck the continues up to 9 and fudged their way through without really getting it? That's why I've not been topping up my health here - don't want to do a similar thing.

[eastyy]

Thing is with psyvarier amount of levels wise it is short.That cannot be denied.BUT in actual amount of gameplay time it is huge.Same with ikaruga i put 14hrs into the game just playing the first level over and over

[Mardigan8]

Spot on Randy, gotta maintain the balance. The story had me by the nutz so any replay was just to try new moves and refine my style. I had to see what was going down next.

Now I dont even touch the items screen. Any level I do now has to be done with that one health bar or not all.

The item system works well with prices increasing so you cant just keep buying **** to get past bosses. Most people who play like that would probably get leathered by the boss even after using 5 large stars they knew folk would try and abuse the replay system to get overpowered but have tried to balance it will and IMO, it works. If you replay in DMC3 its not so much so you can buy things but to work on your ****, get that aerial juggle down pad and stuff.

TBH, I used the stars very rarely as most of my orbs got ploughed into moves and weapons, like what you are doing, its def the way to go. I never used more than one star on a boss on initial play, anything more on first encounter was just soft as ****e!!

Lots of folk will finish DMC3 but not all of them well truly PLAY the game for what it is. It comes back to what we said before... you get out of it what you put in!!!!