StarWars KOTOR

[Gr0ver]

Why have they scrapped the quick weapon slots from their Infinity engine games?

It makes no sense.

[Brats]

Completed it in 26 hrs on the lightside, didn't think much of the ending was expecting a bit more

Blimey, I've only just finished the first planet after Dantooine and I'm over 26 hours! That's with not completing all of the subquests too. I'm really taking my time with this game and loving every minute of it. Awesome stuff.

I left loads of subquests uncompleted on Taris before it was destroyed. More to go back to when I replay it .

[Garibaldi Biscuit]

The lightside ending was a bit dissapointing, but also fit in well with having gratitude but no actual 'reward' IMO ( as the balance in the game is shown between Dark Side being to take whatever you want and to hell with the consequences, whereas Light Side is always do the right thing even if it hampers you ).

That said, you must have missed a fair bit shooting through it in 26 hours, I think my time near the end was 42 hours - which seems to be around the average ( I avoided Pazaak entirely and did very little Swoop racing for fun ).

[smokedog]

you must have missed a fair bit shooting through it in 26 hours, I think my time near the end was 42 hours

I didn't complete most of the side quest, I did what I had to do. I'm not a big fan of RPG's, but i still found KOTOR enjoyable.

[Kerraig UK]

well its taken me 9 and a half hours just to get off taris. And i didnt swoop for fun or fight bendak. is Taris the largest of the planets then?

[Treble]

Yes, Taris is the largest, as it serves as your training wheels in a way.

[Welrain]

Yeah, although I'm basing my experience of the d20 system from the Bioware and Black Isle games.

The system used in these games is massively cut down at best.

I used to play 2nd edition D&D religiously. The basic combat of d20 roll plus attack modifiers must equal or be greater than AC plus Dex modifiers plus other modifiers has remained unchanged since the beginning of D&D.

You can't compare rule systems by one popular dynamic, your choice being attack/defence. And it has changed significantly, the system your describing didn't apply in 2nd edition as AC was better at lower values..you had to roll against THAC0, the 3rd edition system is the one your describing. A much simpler and sensible one to.

There are a few changes in the d20 system with regards to saving throws, but beyond that most of the other changes in the rules system are at a more detailed level (although critical hits used to be an optional rule, but most people used them anyway).

Tbh if your judging d20 using only its software incarnations youll miss all the finer points. Theres lots of new stuff - a new skill system, feats, metamagic, prestige classes plus loads more.

[JRMacumber]

Tbh if your judging d20 using only its software incarnations youll miss all the finer points. Theres lots of new stuff - a new skill system, feats, metamagic, prestige classes plus loads more.

Have to agree with you here. The newer games do an okay job of incorperating the 3rd edition rules, but they do miss quite a bit, which is only natural.

For me, one of the biggest changes to get used to from 2nd to 3rd Edition was Armor Class. It used to be the lower the better, but now it's higher. But, it makes a LOT more sense now.

[Welrain]

Have to agree with you here. The newer games do an okay job of incorperating the 3rd edition rules, but they do miss quite a bit, which is only natural.

Yeah..RPGs are about free will, but theres only so much available in a CRPG.

For me, one of the biggest changes to get used to from 2nd to 3rd Edition was Armor Class. It used to be the lower the better, but now it's higher. But, it makes a LOT more sense now.

Probably the best change of all

Now I wish Kotor would hurry up and hit UK shelves.

[YOUWIN]

Completed it in 26 hrs on the lightside, didn't think much of the ending was expecting a bit more

Might do again using one of my mid-save points but this time being on the darkside, but not sure if worth it

bloody hell - nothing like rushing through a game - took me 20 hours before i was happy that i'd done everything on Taris alone.

About 52 hours in now and am still on manaan(sp) with koribben(sp) to go yet too, mind you i am milking the bastard for all its worth

[Brats]

I used to play 2nd edition D&D religiously. The basic combat of d20 roll plus attack modifiers must equal or be greater than AC plus Dex modifiers plus other modifiers has remained unchanged since the beginning of D&D.

You can compare rule systems by one popular dynamic, your choice being attack/defence. And it has changed significantly, the system your describing didn't apply in 2nd edition as AC was better at lower values..you had to roll against THAC0, the 3rd edition system is the one your describing. A much simpler and sensible one to.

Yes, but it boils down to the exactly the same equation. Rather than role a die higher than the armour class as is the current system, the armour class was subtracted from the die roll. I agree that the d20 way is easier to understand, but the end result is identicle and is not a significant change as you imply.

Tbh if your judging d20 using only its software incarnations youll miss all the finer points. Theres lots of new stuff - a new skill system, feats, metamagic, prestige classes plus loads more.

That's a fair point, but I did say on a broad level. The combat system is more or less the same. Prestige classes did exist in the 2nd Edition rules though, but they were optional.

[Welrain]

Yes, but it boils down to the exactly the same equation. Rather than role a die higher than the armour class as is the current system, the armour class was subtracted from the die roll. I agree that the d20 way is easier to understand, but the end result is identicle and is not a significant change as you imply.

Yes but all Attack/Defence dynamics boil down to the same equation in any RPG and the end result would always be the same (you either hit or you dont). The significance is that WotC removed the unnessary THAC0 system which had been part of the rule set since the very beginning.

That's a fair point, but I did say on a broad level. The combat system is more or less the same. Prestige classes did exist in the 2nd Edition rules though, but they were optional.

The combat system is much more detailed now, CRPGS just dont do it justice. Prestige Classes didnt exist...Kits did, their entirely different.

[Brats]

Yes, but it boils down to the exactly the same equation. Rather than role a die higher than the armour class as is the current system, the armour class was subtracted from the die roll. I agree that the d20 way is easier to understand, but the end result is identicle and is not a significant change as you imply.

Yes but all Attack/Defence dynamics boil down to the same equation in any RPG and the end result would always be the same (you either hit or you dont). The significance is that WotC removed the unnessary THAC0 system which had been part of the rule set since the very beginning.

They don't, some have very different systems involving more complex die roles. Runequest I think had a system whereby you could attack different parts of the body. Many RPGs dispence with die rolls completely and use card systems instead.

Example: The formula for the 2nd edition rules was as follows:

Player has Strength of 14 giving THAC0 of 9 (from memory)
Attacks monster with Armour class of -2
Player requires 11 on a d20 to hit

The d20 rules would be thus:

Player has Strength of 14 giving Attack Modifier of +2
Attacks monster with Armour class of 13
Player requires 11 on d20 to hit

It's exactly the same system with the figures in a different place of the equation, but it boils down to exactly the same thing.

[Welrain]

They don't, some have very different systems involving more complex die roles. Runequest I think had a system whereby you could attack different parts of the body. Many RPGs dispence with die rolls completely and use card systems instead.

You can also target specifics etc in D&D it just adds/subtracts bonuse/penatlies to your dice roll. Other RPGs might use cards but the simple attack/defence system remains the same.

We seem to have got bogged down comparing combat but what it it boils down to the fact that you believe that D&D 3rd is the same as D&D 2nd. I dont think it is..lets agree to disagree :-)

Thread hijack over... :-)

[Brats]

Agreed. It's been good to remind me of my old D&D days though, my mates and I used to have a right laugh.

Still KOTOR eh? Phwoooar, sexy best .