The Orange Box (PC/PS3/360)

[Brats]

And yet you seemed to not criticise Halo 3's stereo-typical Americans and shocking dialogue.

Because it's not the main thrust of that game. If anyone in the Halo 3 thread was talking about how Seargent Johnson is such a great character I would pick them up on it because he clearly isn't. But they aren't because their too busy discussing what's more important to that game.

[Brats]

Is that the point again though. Fighting zombies generally involves blowing heads off whether its from Romero or Capcom. Like RE the zombies don't seem to be there to create a challenge but more to evoke feelings of disgust, pity etc.

Thats how it feels for me anyway. I guess we are all just coming from completely different angles here.

The zombies in Resident Evil are a big threat though due to the limited ammunition and sometimes their sheer numbers. Aside from the bit where they respawn in Ravenholme, the zombies in HL2 always appear in fairly low numbers and I always had a meaty arsenal to dispose of them anyway.

Even if I didn't I could pretty much guarantee there would be a circular saw blade or breeze block to do the job for me.

[B1gBeard]

You're completely right, but these games don't strive for a decent story - they thrive in their combat (except the Darkness which was poo imo). As you say yourself, a lot of HL2 is meant to be secondary to the story.



But why would him joining the resistance help him find out what the G-Man is up to or answer any of those questions? As discussed in the other thread (so I'm not going into masses of detail here) he's awoken after years of stasis and dumped into a completely changed world with no mission, no background, no idea of what has happened, no idea of whether the G-Man is good or evil and yet he seems to know exactly where to go and what to do. That's good storytelling?????

Up to this point maybe its on the money for what Valve want? The story is still ongoing and its not a lot different from being part way through a book.

This lack of info was one of the things I originally likeed strangely enough. I felt I had enough to be going on with and trust to Valve to make it all come together in the end. Maybe I'll be wrong when it does end.

[rmoxon]

The zombies in Resident Evil are a big threat though due to the limited ammunition and sometimes their sheer numbers. Aside from the bit where they respawn in Ravenholme, the zombies in HL2 always appear in fairly low numbers and I always had a meaty arsenal to dispose of them anyway.

Even if I didn't I could pretty much guarantee there would be a circular saw blade or breeze block to do the job for me.

Ive already stated that the only thing I really dont like about the game is the lack of challenge so I'd agree that they are perhapse too easy to kill... dosnet mean i didnt enjoy killing them though. Blowing heads off zombies is always fun. Chopping 3 in half at once with a circular saw is funner still.

[vanpeebles]

Yeah sounds great . I don't think William Goldman will be losing any sleep.....

I couldnt give a toss what he gets upto when he sleeps. My point being the Father is a great fun character and that makes for a very enjoyable level. Which is what it's all about, a good game that entertains. Maybe you need to play more games instead of pulling spiders apart all day.

[Brats]

Up to this point maybe its on the money for what Valve want? The story is still ongoing and its not a lot different from being part way through a book.

This lack of info was one of the things I originally likeed strangely enough. I felt I had enough to be going on with and trust to Valve to make it all come together in the end. Maybe I'll be wrong when it does end.

Don't get me wrong, I haven't got a problem with keeping information back to develop the story at all. It's just that, unlike a decent book or film, I'm never given a reason as to why Freeman is specifically doing what he is doing.

The set up is kind of like the 39 Steps in that the main character is thrust into this scenario not out of his own choice, Except in the film, Robert Donat's actions are always for a reason, despite us not knowing what the 39 steps are until the very last scene. He has a good reason to travel to Scotland whilst being chased by the authorities and I believe I would have done the same.

In HL2, I'm never given a good reason early on why Gordon should put his faith fully into the resistance and risk life and limb for them. In the same predicament, I would have done things differently.

[Brats]

I couldnt give a toss what he gets upto when he sleeps. My point being the Father is a great fun character and that makes for a very enjoyable level. Which is what it's all about, a good game that entertains. Maybe you need to play more games instead of pulling spiders apart all day.

I'm bored at work in an interesting discussion about HL2. Funny that, I find it fun to discuss games when I don't have the oppurtunity to play them.

x infinity

[Dogg Thang]

But why would him joining the resistance help him find out what the G-Man is up to or answer any of those questions? As discussed in the other thread (so I'm not going into masses of detail here) he's awoken after years of stasis and dumped into a completely changed world with no mission, no background, no idea of what has happened, no idea of whether the G-Man is good or evil and yet he seems to know exactly where to go and what to do. That's good storytelling?????

Is G-Man even mentioned by anyone in HL2?

[EvilBoris]

They only one who seems to know about him is Freeman himself

[Brats]

And Freeman never asks - which is what I would do. The first thing I would do is to blab to anyone I trusted about what the hell happened to me and that there is this guy who appears to behind everything and that our actions may be working against us.

But he never says anything. I realise Valve made a design decision that Freeman would never speak, but while it works in HL1, in HL2 it does cause problems with the story and actions. I'm not saying Gordon should speak, but Valve didn't handle that issue particuarly well. It appears that they have just ignored it and hoped most people would not notice (which seems to have worked!).

[Dogg Thang]

So the only one who knows about him is a mute.

[Commander Marklar]

And Freeman never asks - which is what I would do. The first thing I would do is to blab to anyone I trusted about what the hell happened to me and that there is this guy who appears to behind everything and that our actions may be working against us.

But I'm sure you'd just get transported into a little room somewhere with a few hundred monsters dying to meet you for making that choice

But he never says anything. I realise Valve made a design decision that Freeman would never speak, but while it works in HL1, in HL2 it does cause problems with the story and actions. I'm not saying Gordon should speak, but Valve didn't handle that issue particuarly well. It appears that they have just ignored it and hoped most people would not notice (which seems to have worked!).

But then isn't that the same in any game, Shenmue for example? I wanted to smack Ryu around so much 'cos he's a dumb **** and I just wouldn't make those choices in a game, but then I have no choice as to obey...

So the only one who knows about him is a mute.

Have you completed EP2?

[Dogg Thang]

But then isn't that the same in any game, Shenmue for example? I wanted to smack Ryu around so much 'cos he's a dumb **** and I just wouldn't make those choices in a game, but then I have no choice as to obey.

No it's not the same in any game. Yeah you can disagree with Ryo's motivations, sure, and think that you could do a better job than him. Certainly he seems to spend a lot of time looking for sailors and that's not my thing. There are two key differences here - 1) Ryo's motivations were clear at each step regardless of whether we agree with them, 2) Ryo was a fleshed-out character who made his own choices.

By choosing to make Gordon a mute, they allowed the player to project him or herself onto him. I'm guessing that was the reasoning. The trouble is, for that to work, the player has to feel like he is making the choices himself. That's pretty tough when the reasons behind many of the journeys and actions are completely ambiguous. The only actual choice I made in the entire game was to stop off at a house on the buggy ride.

And, no, I haven't completed Ep2. I did, however, play through the full main game of HL2.

[Brats]

But I'm sure you'd just get transported into a little room somewhere with a few hundred monsters dying to meet you for making that choice .

To be fair you don't know that. The G-Man teleports you to this place, but never says 'mention my name and it's curtains for you, matey!'.

But then isn't that the same in any game, Shenmue for example? I wanted to smack Ryu around so much 'cos he's a dumb **** and I just wouldn't make those choices in a game, but then I have no choice as to obey...

I don't like Shenmue either!

Neither of them deal with the issue particuarly well, but games can and do. Take KOTOR for example, a game that allows the narrative to progress in a believable way and along a decent narrative even though the player carries a huge secret that only gets unveiled two thirds of the way through.

Or for an action example look at Bioshock, another FPS with a mute character that uses a clever set up and various devices to push the player along. I always had a clear personal goal in Bioshock (to get the hell out) even though that wasn't the ultimate goal at all. HL2 doesn't have that.

I agree Bioshock has other issues, but it delivers a believable and consistent narrative much better than HL2.

[Commander Marklar]

To be fair you don't know that. The G-Man teleports you to this place, but never says 'mention my name and it's curtains for you, matey!'.

Half-Life reference for you when you make the wrong choice

I don't like Shenmue either!

o/\o

Neither of them deal with the issue particuarly well, but games can and do. Take KOTOR for example, a game that allows the narrative to progress in a believable way and along a decent narrative even though the player carries a huge secret that only gets unveiled two thirds of the way through.

Or for an action example look at Bioshock, another FPS with a mute character that uses a clever set up and various devices to push the player along. I always had a clear personal goal in Bioshock (to get the hell out) even though that wasn't the ultimate goal at all. HL2 doesn't have that.

I agree Bioshock has other issues, but it delivers a believable and consistent narrative much better than HL2.

Oh aye yeah, I totally agree with you. Deus-Ex is another excellent example done well. Half-Life 2 is a jack-of-all-trades by comparison and it is a good game, one I personally enjoyed immensely even with its (quite obvious) shortcomings

By choosing to make Gordon a mute, they allowed the player to project him or herself onto him. I'm guessing that was the reasoning. The trouble is, for that to work, the player has to feel like he is making the choices himself. That's pretty tough when the reasons behind many of the journeys and actions are completely ambiguous. The only actual choice I made in the entire game was to stop off at a house on the buggy ride.

This is Half-Life's main characteristic and its biggest strength. There's no time to think, you are just along for the ride. What is is the G-man says, something about little fish? I can't remember my HL2 quotes

And, no, I haven't completed Ep2. I did, however, play through the full main game of HL2.

->Open Spoiler<-

G-man exposes himself somewhat in Ep2 to those in the know, sort of like a "Hey, I'm just letting you know I'm still here... watching". And not just to Gordon...