The Orange Box (PC/PS3/360)

[dogen]

Some of us are only experiencing it now and wondering what all the fuss was about.

As am I. But I don't find fault in a 3 year old obviously dated game and voice it over and over.

[Brats]

I don't get why you keep criticising the game. Fair enough, you don't like it, that's cool, and while everyone has the right to express themselves as they see fit, why, once you've made your opinion clear, is there a need to keep repeating it? A more suspicious mind might reach the conclusion you don't like seeing people enjoying the game and are intent on convincing folk to adopt your view.

To be fair, the amount of criticism you have chucked at that 'other' big FPS recently released far outweighs mine.

But I'm not just repeating myself, I'm making new points to back up my argument, which isn't the same thing. Earlier in the thread I had little support from anyone, so now there are some likeminded folks that feel the same way as me and are backing it up with new points, is it any surprise that I'm adding further to the debate?

And that's all it is, it's just a fun debate. I don't have an issue with anyone loving the game, but I do admit that I don't 'get' the amazing praise it gets. Other games have been criticised for flaws that HL2 seems to immune to. I'm waiting for the counter argument because so far no-one's convinced me that the game is as worthy of the praise that it recieves.

I really don't get the 'unrivalled storytelling' bit. I admit that the setting and NPC characters are amazing, but I agree with Dogg Thang that the actual 'plot' is virtually non-existant and as discussed before, Gordon's character is weak and the actions of the people around him are bizarre.

I know the episodes are new, but they're using the same source engine with a few updates, right, so I can't imagine anyone is realisticly expecting ground breaking stuff.

Just to make this clear, I have no problem with the engine at all and forum members like Wazmeister completely miss the point and clearly haven't read the thread properly. It's not the engine, it's the design of the game within the engine. That isn't something that a three year old game engine can apologise for.

[rmoxon]

But, hey, that's just me. Maybe I would have been more wowed had I played it three years ago. I just see a plain ol' decent corridor-style FPS. It's good and I can see some effort went into it, but it didn't hit anything beyond that for me. Just personal opinion. Still love the soundtrack and the atmosphere though.

Reading this stament and considering most of the game takes place out in the open at the same time as CONSTANTLY throwing new things both to see and do at you makes me want to just abandon this thread right now, becuase youre still doing the same thing, "a plain and decent corridor style shooter"?.... infact you know what I really just give up.... I'll go and moan about PES2008 some more or somthing..... least that games actualy rubbish.....

[Dogg Thang]

Okay firstly let me address the 'out in the open' bit. Yes, much of the game takes place outdoors. The layout, however, feels exactly the same as it does indoors. Much of the outdoors bits don't really feel outdoors. Sure, some of them look excellent (the setting is great) but the game is entirely enclosed and always feels like corridors. Even when it opens out for a couple of those rocket set pieces, it feels like an enclosed arena (for example,

->Open Spoiler<-

the tripod bits

).

The exceptions to that are the vehicle sections which do feel outdoors mostly. Still linear but that in itself is not a problem. Almost all games of its type would be similarly linear.

And the new things to see and do, well, to see, yes. Not so much to do. Some of the locations were interesting and well realised but they felt too long and I don't actually think that's because they were too long but more because what I was doing felt the same most of the time.

Nobody has said it's rubbish. Or at least, I haven't.

[WazMeister]

I agree when I read the statement of 'Corridors'

I chuckled.

Am I mistaken in saying HL2 was the first FPS to bring us Full, Proper utilized out door areas to play in?

Not just hall ways plasterd with out door sprites and textures but real outside go-karting, ship fighting/flying wars going on!

Immense!

[Synthesthesia]

I agree when I read the statement of 'Corridors'

I chuckled.

Am I mistaken in saying HL2 was the first FPS to bring us Full, Proper utilized out door areas to play in?

Not just hall ways plasterd with out door sprites and textures but real outside go-karting, ship fighting/flying wars going on!

Immense!

Pretty sure the first Halo did this.

[rmoxon]

Okay firstly let me address the 'out in the open' bit. Yes, much of the game takes place outdoors. The layout, however, feels exactly the same as it does indoors. Much of the outdoors bits don't really feel outdoors. Sure, some of them look excellent (the setting is great) but the game is entirely enclosed and always feels like corridors. Even when it opens out for a couple of those rocket set pieces, it feels like an enclosed arena (for example,

->Open Spoiler<-

the tripod bits

).

The exceptions to that are the vehicle sections which do feel outdoors mostly. Still linear but that in itself is not a problem. Almost all games of its type would be similarly linear.

And the new things to see and do, well, to see, yes. Not so much to do. Some of the locations were interesting and well realised but they felt too long and I don't actually think that's because they were too long but more because what I was doing felt the same most of the time.

Nobody has said it's rubbish. Or at least, I haven't.

Ok I couldnt bring myself to leave..... I REALLY disagree with you on the indoor Outdoor thing, I feel every section of the game feels so different from the last but Comparing the Clostrophobic feel of the sewer section to the openness of the outdoor bits, to even the again completely different bit inside nova prospect, to the bit just before it where youre running out side using antlions on the combine. The game just offers so much variety, I dont see what youre saying at all.

Wazmeister, wasnt Far cry first or am I wrong? not sure to be honest.... and theres Halo which was deffinitley before it of course.

[EvilBoris]

Portal Was fantastic and I throughly enjoyed both HL2 and EP2 when I played them on the PC, but I'm not really feeling EP2 at all.

I just feel like I've already played the same thing, I can't believe they pull the old empty buildings in the middle of nowhere get attacked by random combine thing AGAIN

Wazmeister, wasnt Far cry first or am I wrong? not sure to be honest.... and theres Halo which was deffinitley before it of course.

Far cry was out a good 6 months before HL2 and Halo a good 2 years!

[B1gBeard]

Did the game not hit a note when you first got off of the train and take in the desperate situation of some of the people like the lady looking for her huband? What about the intimidating nature of the Combine? What about looking through the door at the hostage the Combine had only to be pushed away and the door slammed shut. What about the guard trying to intimidate you into picking up the rubbish. The great personality of Father Grigori and his defence of you as you escape. Alyx's feelings for you and her naivety. The plight of the people in the block who you bypass while looking for an escape route. The fun with Dog. The zombie in the incinerator which I pained over whether to throw the switch or not. The mystery of the G-Man.

The list of quality in the setting, story and characterisation is lenghty and I'm quite amazed that some people don't see it or appreciate it. The game has negatives as does any game but its mind boggling that these things are touted as some of them.

Maybe we all need to have big Americans in big suits firing big guns nowadays to get the point.

[Brats]

And Goldeneye had some massive outdoor areas. Even Doom had big proper outdoor areas (although no vehicles) so to suggest that HL2 was the first to do this is completely wrong.

I do agree with Dogg Thang on the corridors bit and I think some of you have got your knickers in a twist because a lot of the game is outdoors. Yes it is, but most of it is very restrictive and as said before I do feel like I am being funnelled down a particular route.

Aside from there being to many dull bits, most of the problems I have with HL2 I didn't have with HL1 (although it was older and I was more forgiving back then). I actually believe I have the same problem with HL2 as I do with the film Saving Private Ryan (bear with me here).

In SPR, Spielberg created the 'war look' that would stick with nearly every war film since it's release. The violence was horrific, gritty and the setting was incredibly atmospheric. However the big issue I have with film is because after the initial beach landing, the film turns into a boys own adventure not unlike Indiana Jones. Now I love Indiana Jones and I love to atmosphere of SPR, but together the two just clash and I feel that a film that could have been amazing ends up being a missed oppurtunity.

HL2 gives me this amazing world, but then funnels me through it. I've enjoyed linear games in the past, but HL2 grates so much because I want go to places that the game doesn't force me down. The game gives me great characters with amazing voice syncing, but they behave in a bizarre way and I never know until the end what my motivation is. It gives me a great physics engine, but then does little with it other than cantilever puzzles and the ability to lob things back at enemies or lob a car of a cliff. If gives me great weapons, but then gives me a ten year old weapon select system so that chucking a grenade becomes a laboured experience rather than a useful one. It gives me vehicles to mess around with, but the level design restricts my actions and they go on for far too long.

The reason why I feel so frustrated with the game is that it can tease me with it's brilliance and then slap me in the face with some fairly basic crappy design choice. Each individual element might sound picky in isolation, but together they conflict terribly with the good parts of the game so as to render the positives academic.

[EvilBoris]

The thing that impresses me the most about these games , as always is the incredible quality of the character/facial animation, it is unrivaled.

[dogen]

I would have agreed, until I played Heavenly Sword.

[EvilBoris]

Heavenly sword only has it in the [pre rendered] cutscenes though?

[B1gBeard]

And Goldeneye had some massive outdoor areas. Even Doom had big proper outdoor areas (although no vehicles) so to suggest that HL2 was the first to do this is completely wrong.

I do agree with Dogg Thang on the corridors bit and I think some of you have got your knickers in a twist because a lot of the game is outdoors. Yes it is, but most of it is very restrictive and as said before I do feel like I am being funnelled down a particular route.

Aside from there being to many dull bits, most of the problems I have with HL2 I didn't have with HL1 (although it was older and I was more forgiving back then). I actually believe I have the same problem with HL2 as I do with the film Saving Private Ryan (bear with me here).

In SPR, Spielberg created the 'war look' that would stick with nearly every war film since it's release. The violence was horrific, gritty and the setting was incredibly atmospheric. However the big issue I have with film is because after the initial beach landing, the film turns into a boys own adventure not unlike Indiana Jones. Now I love Indiana Jones and I love to atmosphere of SPR, but together the two just clash and I feel that a film that could have been amazing ends up being a missed oppurtunity.

HL2 gives me this amazing world, but then funnels me through it. I've enjoyed linear games in the past, but HL2 grates so much because I want go to places that the game doesn't force me down. The game gives me great characters with amazing voice syncing, but they behave in a bizarre way and I never know until the end what my motivation is. It gives me a great physics engine, but then does little with it other than cantilever puzzles and the ability to lob things back at enemies or lob a car of a cliff. If gives me great weapons, but then gives me a ten year old weapon select system so that chucking a grenade becomes a laboured experience rather than a useful one. It gives me vehicles to mess around with, but the level design restricts my actions and they go on for far too long.

The reason why I feel so frustrated with the game is that it can tease me with it's brilliance and then slap me in the face with some fairly basic crappy design choice. Each individual element might sound picky in isolation, but together they conflict terribly with the good parts of the game so as to render the positives academic.

I think most of your points miss the point of the game which for me is explained in the post I have made above.

You are criticising the game for funnelling you along when this is clearly what its meant to do. Its part of the design. Its a bit like buying a tank top and not liking it because it doesn't have sleeves.

The physics and linearity were always secondary to the story, atmosphere and characters and Valve would probably even say that themselves. At the time it experimented with and achieved some success with new mechanics but these were never the strong or best things about the game.

[WazMeister]

I agree with Boris, The models/animations are so dam awesome best I've seen yet.

I am wrong on the outdoor thing, I kinda meant the first game to make it really seem a real outdoor world, that goes miles upon miles done by the use of 3D Sky Boxes.

H3, D, Farcry never really felt that real as a open world.. then again I feel Farcry did a great job of it.