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    I've never understood the fascination in games, especially first person shooters, with telling stories movie-style removed from the player's perspective. Give me the Half-Life blueprint any day where the story isn't so much told but rather shown through your in-game experiences and encounters. I think it's a more mature approach and infinately more personal because the player is left to decipher the story, rather than having it spoon fed to him from some all-seeing and all-knowing perspective.


    Originally posted by rmoxon View Post
    While I wouldnt call it too easy, this certainly seems to be alot easier than previous games (which contradicts what I read in most reviews before playing it).
    It's funny - Heroic definitely seemed easier than I remember but Legendary seems harder.
    Last edited by Charlie; 15-09-2010, 14:50.

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      There is room for plenty of different styles of presenting the story within the media. Just as books have 1st person and 3rd person narrative.
      I don't think Half Lifes silent 1st person storytelling is the defacto method of plot delivery. Intact I'd argue that it would be an awful way of presenting a plot if you wanted a have a main character with a personality.

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        i am no fanboy but halflife 2 blows on reach

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          I don't wanna get into a Halo v Half-Life debate (both games are great, both have their strengths and weaknesses) but Gordon Freeman's personality, in my mind at least, is projected onto him by the player. He can be as dull or as exciting as the player decides him to be.

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            Originally posted by englishbob View Post
            Here is what I know of the Halo story, and I have played all of them...

            Your a giant man-come-human thing, on a spaceship that comes under attack and you escape to a planet that is actually a massive Halo. You start to fight against some enemies called the Covenant. The Coveneant themselves have enemies, which in turn become you enemies, called the Flood.

            Thats all I know. The rest has passed me by. Maybe I am thick and/or have a terrible memory. What I do remember are storys and events from films I haven't seen for years and can recount most of them and how all the characters and events fit in. With Halo though, this has never happened. Through process of elmination, I'd say they are doing something wrong with the story and the way its communicated.

            I guess you didnt take much notice of the story in any of the games.

            You never escape to a planet that is a giant Halo im any of them... The story is hard to follow, but its even harder when you take no notice.

            As I have said already though, the Halo games have a rubbish story, Bungie dont seem to even try to tell it in a decent way.
            Last edited by rmoxon; 15-09-2010, 15:36.

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              Originally posted by rmoxon View Post
              I guess you didnt take much notice of the story in any of the games.

              You never escape to a planet that is a giant Halo im any of them... The story is hard to follow, but its even harder when you take no notice.

              As I have said already though, the Halo games have a rubbish story, Bungie dont seem to even try to tell it in a decent way.
              What? That's the first thing that happens after you escape The Pillar of Autumn in Halo CE.

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                Originally posted by FullSpecWarrior View Post
                What? That's the first thing that happens after you escape The Pillar of Autumn in Halo CE.
                No, becuase its not a planet, its a space station and the space station surounds the planet you crash on at the begining of the game, is if shown by the fact that as soon as the level starts if you look up you can see it.
                Last edited by rmoxon; 15-09-2010, 15:48.

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                  Originally posted by Brats View Post
                  It requires the player to read between the lines and doesn't feel the need to signpost obvious stuff.
                  Some of that signposting, however, is crucial.

                  Halo 3 was a bugger for not telling me why my character was doing stuff. As bad as HL2 in that regard. As far as I'm concerned, it could have the richest backstory and setting of any game ever, if it doesn't get that right, it fails. I'd argue that, while you might say that a 'method' of storytelling can't be wrong (not so sure myself), if you haven't mastered your chosen method to the point where you can provide the most basic answers to 'what am I doing and why am I doing it?', you've messed up severely.

                  In terms of storytelling, Halo 3 and HL2 were in the same league to me (not a compliment). Hence this old thread - http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.php?t=80533

                  It's actually one of the reasons I wasn't compelled to go for ODST and haven't gone for Reach yet, though I still might. The impressions here are certainly good.

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                    Originally posted by rmoxon View Post
                    No, becuase its not a planet, its a space station and the space station surounds the planet you crash on at the begining of the game.
                    Bit pedantic but OK.

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                      Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                      Some of that signposting, however, is crucial.

                      Halo 3 was a bugger for not telling me why my character was doing stuff. As bad as HL2 in that regard. As far as I'm concerned, it could have the richest backstory and setting of any game ever, if it doesn't get that right, it fails. I'd argue that, while you might say that a 'method' of storytelling can't be wrong (not so sure myself), if you haven't mastered your chosen method to the point where you can provide the most basic answers to 'what am I doing and why am I doing it?', you've messed up severely.

                      In terms of storytelling, Halo 3 and HL2 were in the same league to me (not a compliment). Hence this old thread - http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.php?t=80533

                      It's actually one of the reasons I wasn't compelled to go for ODST and haven't gone for Reach yet, though I still might. The impressions here are certainly good.
                      The thing about Halo games is that they seem to almost completely lack exposition.

                      They are the equivilant of if David Mammet got increadabley drunk and wrote a Sci-fi film. In fact didnt he make a film called Spartan?
                      Last edited by rmoxon; 15-09-2010, 15:59.

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                        Originally posted by Charlie View Post
                        I don't wanna get into a Halo v Half-Life debate (both games are great, both have their strengths and weaknesses) but Gordon Freeman's personality, in my mind at least, is projected onto him by the player. He can be as dull or as exciting as the player decides him to be.
                        I like games that do that (Oblivion, Fallout 3 for example) but HL2 isn't one imo of them because Gordon's actions do a large part to define his personality. In HL2, when the teleporter goes wrong, I wanted to get back in the lab with Barney, Alex and the Professor as I thought being cautious would be the way I would deal with that situation. However the game says no, you have to become a super action man running through the sewers with crow bar. If the character had a personality projected on him like Halo (or most other games), I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

                        I like the idea of never being removed from the action in HL2, but the story is definately 'told' to the player, unlike Halo's way of not delivering any exposition.

                        As others have said, there is no right way, but I'm glad there are games that try different ways.

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                          Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                          Some of that signposting, however, is crucial.

                          Halo 3 was a bugger for not telling me why my character was doing stuff. As bad as HL2 in that regard. As far as I'm concerned, it could have the richest backstory and setting of any game ever, if it doesn't get that right, it fails. I'd argue that, while you might say that a 'method' of storytelling can't be wrong (not so sure myself), if you haven't mastered your chosen method to the point where you can provide the most basic answers to 'what am I doing and why am I doing it?', you've messed up severely.

                          In terms of storytelling, Halo 3 and HL2 were in the same league to me (not a compliment). Hence this old thread - http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.php?t=80533

                          It's actually one of the reasons I wasn't compelled to go for ODST and haven't gone for Reach yet, though I still might. The impressions here are certainly good.
                          I'm completely with you on HL2, but with Halo 3 Master Chief's motivation was always apparent. It helps that he's a soldier and is sometimes just following the orders/advice of other military officers, but I always had a sense that my actions were playing a part in saving the universe. Fundamentally, it's all about stopping the Covenant triggering the ark and ending life in the Galaxy and then killing off the threat of the flood once and for all.

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                            Originally posted by rmoxon View Post
                            No, becuase its not a planet, its a space station and the space station surounds the planet you crash on at the begining of the game, is if shown by the fact that as soon as the level starts if you look up you can see it.
                            Are you sure, I'm pretty sure you are on the Ringworld, which is why you can look up and see it wherever you are. The monitor lives on it and looks after it.

                            The whole game is set on the Halo, right up til the end when the Pillar of Autumn crashes on it and you blow up the Halo

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                              Originally posted by EvilBoris View Post
                              Are you sure, I'm pretty sure you are on the Ringworld, which is why you can look up and see it wherever you are. The monitor lives on it and looks after it.

                              The whole game is set on the Halo, right up til the end when the Pillar of Autumn crashes on it and you blow up the Halo
                              Isn't Halo a space station though?

                              That is what I thought he was saying.

                              I.e. they are building another space station in H3 to replace the original Halo ring.

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                                Originally posted by rmoxon View Post
                                As I have said already though, the Halo games have a rubbish story, Bungie dont seem to even try to tell it in a decent way.
                                Yep.

                                The Halo story is so bafflingly stupid it's beyond comprehension. The first game was OK, then in part 2 is started going crazy. By H3 it was incoherent fanboy ramblings, seemingly there just to please other fanbois. Truly, truly awful.

                                I brought this up in the H3 at the time, to be told I needed to read all the Halo books to understand the backstory Yes I laughed as well.

                                Not touched the Reach campaign yet, but the reviews say the story is told substantially better.

                                What's really bad about it all, is the soundtrack just screams EPIC at you, and with a decent narrative and cutscenes, it could be a truly rousing, and moving, story.

                                Quick edit - I could add the same about Gears. Gears 1 was ok, but Gears 2 was a complete mess. I think the devs make a big game then start getting delusions of epicness, without the skill to pull it off. Narrative isn't easy, despite what some people may think.

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