Sonic the Hedgehog 4

[saturn-gamer]

Ofcourse. But Sonic 4 is a Sonic game like the first ones. I don't get the lamenting on friends in this context. Do they expect that you get a 2d mech shooter on these stages, or Knuckles search the emerald shenanigans? If Sonic gets friends in Sonic 4, it will be like old times. There is hardly another option.

I suspect that they added friends in Sonic Adventure 1 just to extend the game. And to be fair Tails was pretty fun in SA1, very much like his 2D gameplay. In Sonic Adventure 2 it made less sense to me. SA2 would be as good as the 2D sonics if all it featured were Sonic stages. Those were the best 3D stages you could possibly get into a Sonic game.

I thought that Bat from SA2 was pretty cool, it was just her gameplay that was awful (I always hated emerald searching in the SA games).

[sj33]

I've finally managed to play this (the Wiiware version). It's quite nice actually.

The level design is fantastic, very imaginative. My biggest critisism with the Advance and Rush games were the lack of imagination put into the levels - players ran so fast through them that none of the levels were memorable. With the old games, I could recall the levels and map them on paper through memory, which is something I could never do with Advance/Rush because you just rushed through levels whilst trying to avoid bottomless pits. This game seems to take things back a bit, forcing players to explore a bit more just like in Sonic 3. This is a massive improvement for me... contrary to popular belief, classic Sonic wasn't just about speed, there was a huge non-linear element to the games that this has captured well.

Visually... I'm a bit divided. It's all very detailed (even the Wii version), and levels like the Lost Labyrinth Zone are a triumph of art. On the negative, the game is prerendered and looks pre-rendered. Some people like that look, I really don't. But overall, it all looks quite nice.

The music is at best 'fitting', none of it seems very memorable though. Not particularly bad, but I'll hardly be rushing out to buy the soundtrack CD. But maybe it'll grow on me.

Overall, I feel quite positive about the whole thing, it's a step in the right direction, especially the reduced emphasis on mindless speed and balancing it out with increased focus on non-linear exploration. The critisisms from others are all valid in my opinion - Sonic does feel different, and it is a positive thing that people are noticing such nuances in the gameplay that even the developers might not have noticed, so things can improve. The vemon is a bit extreme, it is progress and this game does many things right, but there are issues. Overall, this is rather good.

Are the 360/PS3 versions different from the Wii version, visuals aside?

[Super Monkey Balls]

To quote a mate who played both "The Wii version is exactly like the Xbox, but with cataracts".

[Legendary Wolf]

I have no problem with any of the earlier characters (Tails & Knuckles) as they were introduced one at a time and added something new to the Sonic game experience and if I remember correctly their motivation and integration into the sonic universe was explained in the manuals.

I've not played Chaotix on the 32X but do remember there being a few new characters in that game but by the time the Adventure games had come around I felt they had added too many and unecessary ones. I can understand why they did this, to expand the sonic universe and create something a little bit more marketable maybe, toys and cartoon series for example.

By removing all of them, especially when this is number 4 in the series feels odd and just strenghthens the view that this is closer to a Sonic 1 or 2 HD remake than a sequel.

I think most of us are in agreement that the level design is something they have got right, but considering this game is from Sonic Team, you would expect that and a bit more besides. I'm happy they have at least given it a go and hope they tweak episode 2 but I can't see that happening.

One game in the series that hasn't been mentioned is Sonic 3D, i'm just wondering what peoples thoughts are comparing the two. It was quite a departure from the traditional Sonic games and also had mixed reviews at the time. Gameplay wise it was not as good but the level design again was pretty good, especially considering the isometric view and I absolutely loved the music to both the MD and Saturn versions, they were completely different but brilliant in equal measure. I actually like the idea of collecting the flickies as well as the rings as an added challenge in the game. Thinking about it now and I'd rather play that than Sonic 4.

[sj33]

One game in the series that hasn't been mentioned is Sonic 3D, i'm just wondering what peoples thoughts are comparing the two. It was quite a departure from the traditional Sonic games and also had mixed reviews at the time. Gameplay wise it was not as good but the level design again was pretty good, especially considering the isometric view and I absolutely loved the music to both the MD and Saturn versions, they were completely different but brilliant in equal measure. I actually like the idea of collecting the flickies as well as the rings as an added challenge in the game. Thinking about it now and I'd rather play that than Sonic 4.

I have quite a soft spot for Sonic 3D, probably because it was released at a time when Sonic still had positive connotations, the idea of a (psudo) 3D Sonic was still a new thing. I was relatively young at the time, and had spent the last 5 years playing Sonic (and Streets of Rage) on a daily basis, so I lapped it up. I actually felt Traveller's Tales did a good job of making the Zone feel like actual Sonic zones (and did a similarly good job here with Sonic R), and the critisism of the gameplay could be applied to pretty much any isometic-3D platformer. In retrospect, the flaws are plain to see, and the gameplay was quite a departure, but I still view both versions of the game in a positive light.

And we also got some of Richard Jacques' best...

[saturn-gamer]

I think that Sonic 4 Episode 2 will feel like more than another Sonic 1 HD. The secret ending

->Open Spoiler<-

revealed that at least Metal Sonic will make an appearance

Sonic 3D marked the downfall of Sonic imo. Sega decided to outsource its mascot and I don't think thats ever good. Although you could see Sonic 3D as some sort of Mario is Missing or Mario RPG spin off. On the dying MD I could live with it but the sad thing is that Sonic 3D is the only genuine Sonic on the Saturn. Later on Sega said they couldn't translate Sonic to the 32-bits generation in decent fashion. I do believe that, a 3D platform game on a non-N64 console would likely end up to be another piece of **** like so many. Ofcourse Sega could make an awesome 2D Sonic on the Saturn and they should have, but fact is anything 2D would surely get ripped to shreds back then. Especially next to the rival Mario 64 who showed it worked. 3D was in extremely high demand.

I've played some SA1 yesterday and I think its actually worse than Sonic 4 so yeah I think S4 is the best Sonic in a decade but its not saying all that much.

[sj33]

The Saturn version of Sonic 3D was just the result of childish internal politics within Sega at the time. For example, Yuji Naka threatening to quit Sega if the Sonic Xtreme team were allowed to use the Nights engine.

[Darwock]

Is there a demo of this for PSN and where can I find it if so?

[Number45]

Nope, no demo on the PSN.

[Darwock]

I thought it was a bit strange that the full game is sitting under the 'Demo' category on the US store. That's annoying.

[SuperBeatBoy]

I thought it was a bit strange that the full game is sitting under the 'Demo' category on the US store. That's annoying.

Theres a demo on the JPN store though.

[Legendary Wolf]

I actually felt Traveller's Tales did a good job of making the Zone feel like actual Sonic zones (and did a similarly good job here with Sonic R), and the critisism of the gameplay could be applied to pretty much any isometic-3D platformer. In retrospect, the flaws are plain to see, and the gameplay was quite a departure, but I still view both versions of the game in a positive light.

And we also got some of Richard Jacques' best...

Yes, the zones are varied and resemble the previous games visual style. I have never been a fan of isometric games, the Spectrum had it's fair share of these and I never liked them. Sonic 3D is probably the best incarnation of that style of game that I can think of. There were some nice touches added like the spinning move in that vid and when you used to turn into a block of ice in the diamond dust zone.

Ofcourse Sega could make an awesome 2D Sonic on the Saturn and they should have, but fact is anything 2D would surely get ripped to shreds back then. Especially next to the rival Mario 64 who showed it worked. 3D was in extremely high demand.

Sad but true, a 2D Sonic game, playing to the Saturn's strengths could have been the best Sonic game ever, but the whole world saw 3D as the new frontier and Sega would have been heavily criticised for not taking Sonic in the same direction. Little did they know what lay ahead for future games and the gradual decline of their mascot.

[Team Andromeda]

Sad but true, a 2D Sonic game, playing to the Saturn's strengths could have been the best Sonic game ever, but the whole world saw 3D as the new frontier and Sega would have been heavily criticised for not taking Sonic in the same direction.

As soon as Mario went 3D Sonic had to follow. I think the biggest mistake was not port Sonic the Arcade game and putting an improved Sonic CD (onthe same disc) ready for the Saturn USA launch. To me we really should have got a 2D Streets Of Rage that played to the Saturn strengths, more than a 2d Sonic.

I also don't agree about SONIC Adv, I think its a brilliant game, and the best Sonic I've ever played

Later on Sega said they couldn't translate Sonic to the 32-bits generation in decent fashion

I think that is just PR talk for Project Sonic being moved to DC production, given the Saturn was selling like **** in Sonic's Main Markets. Sonic Jam 3D engine (which I take it was the code for Saturn Sonic Adv) was pretty impressive and pretty good. I'm sure the team could have made a really decent Sonic game on the Saturn

[Legendary Wolf]

I don't know if anyone has seen this video but this looks amazing. It's what Sonic 4 should have looked and played like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxXycBv3Rlk&feature=youtu.be

[Dogg Thang]

That looks absolutely lovely. Take that and add whole new zones building on where they left off with S&K and they'd have pure gold.