Gran Turismo 5

[Brad]

Oh the AI is as bad as ever I reckon. Whilst doing the VW camper procession on the Top Gear track I overtook an AI and moved to the racing line. Thing is, I hadn't completely overtaken the other camper van so the AI was beside me and continued to make a beeline for the racing line, despite the fact that I was already on it. It just kept pushing against me constantly like it was totally unaware of my existence. It was like a Terminator - it absolutely WILL NOT STOP UNTIL IT IS ON THE RACING LINE OR ONE OF US IS DEAD!

[dvdx2]

has anyone unlocked the damage model yet?

[charlesr]

Oh the AI is as bad as ever I reckon. Whilst doing the VW camper procession on the Top Gear track I overtook an AI and moved to the racing line. Thing is, I hadn't completely overtaken the other camper van so the AI was beside me and continued to make a beeline for the racing line, despite the fact that I was already on it. It just kept pushing against me constantly like it was totally unaware of my existence. It was like a Terminator - it absolutely WILL NOT STOP UNTIL IT IS ON THE RACING LINE OR ONE OF US IS DEAD!

[stereotyping ON]Are you sure it wasn't just a stoner driving, completely monged in a campervan full of smoke?[/]

[Brad]

lmao!
Took me 20 attempts to get 8th position in those campers. On about my 10th go I was pretty close to actually winning but got over excited, hit some cones and got disqualified. I should point out that almost all the cones had toppled by this point but apparently it's ok for the AI drivers to do this...

@dvd2 - No, I'm only level 8 though.

[kernow]

Having camper vans in it is very nice and all but wtf is the point lol, when do you see camper vans going around a track in real life.

[charlesr]

Only once.

Then never again.

So, erm back on topic, was it fun with the campervans?

[rmoxon]

Is the camper van thing somthing that they actualy did on an episode of Top Gear?

The van is (obviously) really slow, Im not sure id call driving it that fun, I think the race where you use it is increadabley hard, actualy only played it a few times but I think the best i have done is 9th and I dont feel like I want to try and better that any time soon.

[Flabio]

They do often do races of things not really built for racing on Top Gear, but I don't think they've done camper vans specifically. They did buses and people carriers that I can remember.

[MartyG]

There was an episode where the Top Gear crew made their own camper vans - but I don't think you'd have wanted to race any of them.

[Brad]

They (polyphony) should add airport vehicles, then we can replicate that episode where hey raced boarding stairs and stuff!

[oldskool]

GT5 doesn't do itself any favours does it? Like many others, I am constantly wondering why it took so long to get released and why this still has some obvious flaws. Initially I was underwhelmed with the annoying loading times and that strange pixelated effect on the car during the rain/snow tracks. But I have to say the handling/gameplay is just outstanding and worth it for that alone.

[copperband]

Like others I can't understand the reason why this has taken so long to get released?
I've been playing all afternoon with a mate on split screen, it is fun but just not a patch on Forza 3 for variation IMO. The reason is that the tracks are just too similar to drive on, there's loads of detail & loads going on but most if that is behind the barriers.The city courses are particularly forgiving where you can just bounce your way round the barriers or cutting the corners without any real penalty. I know that latter point is addressed in online multiplayer.

For me this game is superficially excellent and has glimmers of originality like the Karting but overall just feels (and in some cases still looks) like past iterations :-/

Btw does anyone know how to race Karts in plot screen? I was playing Karts online last night with a room of 12 round Libdon which was brilliant fun :-)

[Uli]

i am surprised that so many are surprised about the game not being state of the art. i've played the various show floor builds for the past 3 years and it was pretty clear for me that GT5 would already be technically outdated the day it was released.

what about Les Mans 24h races - is it in? and is it possible to adjust day/night-time and weather for a race or a track in free race mode?

[englishbob]

Confused. My first reaction to my first few hours with this, 5 years in the making, looking at screenshots, reading about all of the extra features that where coming, such as in-car cockpit view, weather, damage and online play, and then actually getting my hands on it. And yet all I can think about is where other racers that have come and gone inbetween, how this was possible. How this was possible that I thought that this is so far behind everything else now in terms of, well, progress.

This game is single-handedly stubborn, thats my first and last impression of this latest version. Its presentation is still top-notch, the GT Life mode is the product of something that has been playtested and refined to perfection. Its gives the impression that there is plenty to do and see, a large and good selection of tracks (although some notable exceptions), and then there is the handling model.

This is where the money is, the handling feels good and a lot different and realistic than other games of its type. The "Special Events" are also a great distraction, such as Kart racing or VW Camper Vans around the Top Gear test track. The visuals are in 1080p and the sound goes up to 7.1 PCM which is briliant stuff for high end kit.

But after the positives come a lot of negatives. I don't think I am alone in thinking I expected more after 5 years, not to unreasonable levels, but some sort of progression and reaction to how the racing genre has changed since 1997 (from the first GT release). Its safe to say there is a ghost in the machine and its a PSOne and its 1997 all over again. The core "game" is the same one from the last decade, and argue all you want about it "not being the point of it", you still have to race and play to get what you want. Many times.

Grinding has long been a problem of the series and this now seems to take it to the max. For example, 12,500,000 for a F1 2007 car. OK so it will be a fast car, but really, if (for example) an average payout of 15,000 credits in winnings from a race, thats 833 races to win for one single car. Hard to think, spread across all the classes there is enough races to cover this without constant replaying. And thats just for ONE car.

Then comes up instantly the difference between STANDARD and PREMIUM car types, and this is where the first of the new features, in-car cockpit, fails quite badly, especially against its rivals. You will end up spending quite a bit of the first few hours racing with STANDARD cars with no internal view. And those STANDARD cars look terrible, like something from the previous GT4 game, 1080i and all. It starts off as a disjointed experience and therefore shouldn't have really included STANDARD cars if there weren't up to scratch, I don't see other games such as Forza having this sort of comprimise.

The next massive comprimise is weather. Not counting the Snow and Dirt tracks for a minute, only 6 courses out 61 have weather effects. And that weather effect is rain. And it is dire, seriously bad. To see this sort of thing done properly, check out F1 2010 or even PGR4 from a few years back, a couple of splashes on a windscreen (always in the same place) and a grey effect around some tires does not cut it as weather effects.

The same could also be said of damage. So far I have not seen any of it, but I am assured its there somewhere, However given the other conditional requirements, its probably only available for a small handful of cars. I can't comment on damage yet, but still I am not expect much. To be truthful its always been a bit overplayed anyway (including damage), but I agree it should be there because there is always the A.I. to rectify and consider. On the AI routines, they are still the best a GT game has ever been, but still woefully short of the standard from.

Ah, but the age old arguement (used in every other game type, especially beat-em-ups) is that you should really play against other real human players, You shoud play online. So, down to online then (when it works). This is where Polyphony really show their inexperience with this kind of thing, the online mode as it currently stands is terrible. For gameplay standards, you don't earn any credits by racing online. I am sure you did in Prologue. Then there is the lobby screen. It has a "START RACE" option that ANYONE in the lobby can press to start the race. Thisis a mistake and (as the lobby owner) you find it nigh-on impossilbe to change the track or options before it starts again. It is an IMPOSSIBLE situation! Its structure options when you get to them are so serverly limited, there might as not be any options. All cars, all circuits for everyone, totally unstructure racing. Its a nightmare.

Online racing, as well as offline, needs some sort of spacial awareness indicator, like the one used (but never repeated it seems) from F355 Challenge on the Dreamcast. So you can see where any one of the 11 other racers are in relation to your vehicle when close.

But then thats just the thing with this game isn't it, the legend that Polyphony are just not interested in outside influences and refuse to add features that may be seen as copying others, even if it makes the series better. I think they need help to be honest, they need help to make this game to become a better product. I cannot see where the time has gone with this edition. Or money. They must of spent a lot on this game, yet it doesn't take other game studios half that sort of money or time.

If I where a betting man, I would say that the original coder for GT1 left years ago, and he/she was the most talented one. Since then, they have just been modifying and tweaking parts of the same code over the last 4 releases, too scared or not resourceful or talented enough to just start all over again and rethink the wheel. All I see is painstakingly pouring over digital recreations of PREMIUM cars for years on end while the main man gets loads of track days, and then panicing when the have to release something for Sony's money.

Its sad to say but GT is no longer the de-facto racing brand anymore, there are others that do better. To those that think I am being harsh, well, maybe, but I wish you all the best in aiming for that legendary 12.5 million credits for that car.

[jim g]

Confused. My first reaction to my first few hours with this, 5 years in the making, looking at screenshots, reading about all of the extra features that where coming, such as in-car cockpit view, weather, damage and online play, and then actually getting my hands on it. And yet all I can think about is where other racers that have come and gone inbetween, how this was possible. How this was possible that I thought that this is so far behind everything else now in terms of, well, progress.

This game is single-handedly stubborn, thats my first and last impression of this latest version. Its presentation is still top-notch, the GT Life mode is the product of something that has been playtested and refined to perfection. Its gives the impression that there is plenty to do and see, a large and good selection of tracks (although some notable exceptions), and then there is the handling model.

This is where the money is, the handling feels good and a lot different and realistic than other games of its type. The "Special Events" are also a great distraction, such as Kart racing or VW Camper Vans around the Top Gear test track. The visuals are in 1080p and the sound goes up to 7.1 PCM which is briliant stuff for high end kit.

But after the positives come a lot of negatives. I don't think I am alone in thinking I expected more after 5 years, not to unreasonable levels, but some sort of progression and reaction to how the racing genre has changed since 1997 (from the first GT release). Its safe to say there is a ghost in the machine and its a PSOne and its 1997 all over again. The core "game" is the same one from the last decade, and argue all you want about it "not being the point of it", you still have to race and play to get what you want. Many times.

Grinding has long been a problem of the series and this now seems to take it to the max. For example, 12,500,000 for a F1 2007 car. OK so it will be a fast car, but really, if (for example) an average payout of 15,000 credits in winnings from a race, thats 833 races to win for one single car. Hard to think, spread across all the classes there is enough races to cover this without constant replaying. And thats just for ONE car.

Then comes up instantly the difference between STANDARD and PREMIUM car types, and this is where the first of the new features, in-car cockpit, fails quite badly, especially against its rivals. You will end up spending quite a bit of the first few hours racing with STANDARD cars with no internal view. And those STANDARD cars look terrible, like something from the previous GT4 game, 1080i and all. It starts off as a disjointed experience and therefore shouldn't have really included STANDARD cars if there weren't up to scratch, I don't see other games such as Forza having this sort of comprimise.

The next massive comprimise is weather. Not counting the Snow and Dirt tracks for a minute, only 6 courses out 61 have weather effects. And that weather effect is rain. And it is dire, seriously bad. To see this sort of thing done properly, check out F1 2010 or even PGR4 from a few years back, a couple of splashes on a windscreen (always in the same place) and a grey effect around some tires does not cut it as weather effects.

The same could also be said of damage. So far I have not seen any of it, but I am assured its there somewhere, However given the other conditional requirements, its probably only available for a small handful of cars. I can't comment on damage yet, but still I am not expect much. To be truthful its always been a bit overplayed anyway (including damage), but I agree it should be there because there is always the A.I. to rectify and consider. On the AI routines, they are still the best a GT game has ever been, but still woefully short of the standard from.

Ah, but the age old arguement (used in every other game type, especially beat-em-ups) is that you should really play against other real human players, You shoud play online. So, down to online then (when it works). This is where Polyphony really show their inexperience with this kind of thing, the online mode as it currently stands is terrible. For gameplay standards, you don't earn any credits by racing online. I am sure you did in Prologue. Then there is the lobby screen. It has a "START RACE" option that ANYONE in the lobby can press to start the race. Thisis a mistake and (as the lobby owner) you find it nigh-on impossilbe to change the track or options before it starts again. It is an IMPOSSIBLE situation! Its structure options when you get to them are so serverly limited, there might as not be any options. All cars, all circuits for everyone, totally unstructure racing. Its a nightmare.

Online racing, as well as offline, needs some sort of spacial awareness indicator, like the one used (but never repeated it seems) from F355 Challenge on the Dreamcast. So you can see where any one of the 11 other racers are in relation to your vehicle when close.

But then thats just the thing with this game isn't it, the legend that Polyphony are just not interested in outside influences and refuse to add features that may be seen as copying others, even if it makes the series better. I think they need help to be honest, they need help to make this game to become a better product. I cannot see where the time has gone with this edition. Or money. They must of spent a lot on this game, yet it doesn't take other game studios half that sort of money or time.

If I where a betting man, I would say that the original coder for GT1 left years ago, and he/she was the most talented one. Since then, they have just been modifying and tweaking parts of the same code over the last 4 releases, too scared or not resourceful or talented enough to just start all over again and rethink the wheel. All I see is painstakingly pouring over digital recreations of PREMIUM cars for years on end while the main man gets loads of track days, and then panicing when the have to release something for Sony's money.

Its sad to say but GT is no longer the de-facto racing brand anymore, there are others that do better. To those that think I am being harsh, well, maybe, but I wish you all the best in aiming for that legendary 12.5 million credits for that car.

Excellent Summary sir, take a bow!