Zelda - the Wind Waker

[SharkAttack]

Just to nit pick 2 of oyur points straight away -

The gales song allows you to cut out lots of sailing if you happen to find it boring.

I have practically avoided 90% of enemies at sea without having to fight them.

If you find the game boring - I believe thats your own problem - There is enough great stuff going on to keep anyone happy.

[Pikman]

SharkAttack Posted: Sun Sep 21, 10:52 pm

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If you find the game boring - I believe thats your own problem - There is enough great stuff going on to keep anyone happy.

I guess I'm not anyone then.

And why is it one cannot criticise something on this forum without being criticised for criticising?

If you want only those with admiration for the game to post then I suggest you open a "Official Wind Waker Praise Thread" topic.

[Garibaldi Biscuit]

Don't let it rile you, Pikman.

It seems that folk need to justify their enjoyment of a title by totally destroying any arguments to the contrary. As I mentioned before, accusing you of being anhidonic because there is 'enough fun for all!' is hardly a constructive argument to take, and smacks of a need for the moral high ground.

SharkAttack, if you'd merely said this:

Just to nit pick 2 of oyur points straight away -

The gales song allows you to cut out lots of sailing if you happen to find it boring.

I have practically avoided 90% of enemies at sea without having to fight them.

Then rounded it off with a neutral conclusion, then you would've had relevance without being adversarial. Feeling passionate about a title is fine, but that doesn't mean that you have to accuse anyone who doesn't like it of needing to be sectioned under the Mental Health Act.

[Manta Ray vs Guitar]

Come on, dude.

Pikman went through the same worn-out, nonsensical crap you've seen flung at this game a hundred times already.

From

Being a fanatical Zelda player since it's first outings on the NES

to

I also felt it was aimed at a younger audience than previous installments which again detracted from the overall experience

?

Jesus.

Both of these are annoying comments individually, but when they're in the same pissfest they're just stupid.

Not to say he didn't have any decent points, but be fair.

[Garibaldi Biscuit]

If he agrees with those points then what right doesn't he have to make them? You might as well say that people are forbidden from using the same superlative about the new graphics more than once, but then that would be ridiculous wouldn't it?

'Be fair' is precisely what I am trying to be, allowing everyone an equal say even when their views are obviously unpopular - as long as those views are put across in a logical and non-aggressive form.

Labelling his points as a 'pissfest' is unecessarily obnoxious, it's not like Pikman marched in and said '****ing hell, all these flowery diatribes about the new Zelda are really pissing me off. This is how I I feel about it.....'.

After all, don't you think such blind enthusiasm for the title he finds so much fault with frustrates him just as much, if not more, than his posts do to you?

[SharkAttack]

Well I didn't agree with his points and stated my opinion and you shot me down gab. So ner.

[Garibaldi Biscuit]

I shot you down because you suggested that by seeing such bad points in the game he 'had a problem'. He made no such accusation towards those who saw only positives in Windwaker, such as yourself.

So ner

[Manta Ray vs Guitar]

If he agrees with those points then what right doesn't he have to make them?

Nobody said he didn't have a right to make them.

Here:

The guy said it was aimed at younger audiences (than every other previous Zelda game?!?), and that this was a Bad Thing. That's good for at least one personal attack. It's a rule.

You might as well say that people are forbidden from using the same superlative about the new graphics more than once, but then that would be ridiculous wouldn't it?

Yeah - but Celda is beautiful, and redundancy isn't a crime.
On the other hand, you'd think by now people would realise that the omgkiddie argument is just lame - especially when coupled with the 1337 playedeveryzelda argument. I assert that there really is something wrong with the guy if he feels this way.

The repetition/familiarity argument, on the other hand, is fine and should be allowed to be made without recrimination. Kudos for trying to facilitate civil discourse in this regard.

So I guess it makes sense to gun for SharkAttack because he blew up for the wrong reason. Considering there were so many other excellent ones, and all. But it seemed to me like you were missing the point, and weren't being entirely fair because of that. I'll take what I can get, you know?

Labelling his points as a 'pissfest' is unecessarily obnoxious, it's not like Pikman marched in and said '****ing hell, all these flowery diatribes about the new Zelda are really pissing me off. This is how I I feel about it.....'.

If you're going to have an opinion that's likely to piss a lot of people off, you'd better make it smart and you'd better have a sense of humour about it. Pikman didn't.

[Garibaldi Biscuit]

Thanks for countering my points constructivly and keeping things balanced, I feared this might turn into an overblown war of semantics after my first couple of posts but am relieved to find that unrealised.

Hmm, I think it all comes down to what we read from the posts as individuals, and that's why you may percieve me to be missing the point, as it were. Fans of Wind Waker are still quite angry over people dismissing the game because it looks 'kiddy', and rightly so, hence they are always looking for this weak argument with an eagle eye as they percieve it to be an injustice to Wind Waker ( which it is ).

I didn't see the problem here though as Pikman acknowledged that Wind Waker looked and sounded great, but rather it was the drastic drop in difficulty which lead him to believe it had been clipped and trimmed for a younger audience's consumption. I agree with him on this much, I loved the game but I did shoot through it at an alarming pace, whether this is enough to hamper the overall experience is all relative of course.

[Manta Ray vs Guitar]

You know, I completely forgot about the whole 'Windwaker is easy' thing. If that's what he meant about it being for younger folk, then he definitely had a point. That aspect of the game killed a lot of the drama of combat for me. When I go through WW again, I'm not collecting a single heart piece. That should cut down on the collecting/ocean bits and bump up the challenge in one stroke.

[SharkAttack]

Actually he didn't state the game was easy.

I felt I'd seen it all before and really didn't enjoy it, I also felt it was aimed at a younger audience than previous installments which again detracted from the overall experience.

Nothing about difficulty in there.

He just claimed he found the game boring, samey and nothing new. Which is fair enough - Except there was lots new (IMO ).

[Garibaldi Biscuit]

The islands I felt were too small and too few. The dungeons were again too few and offered nothing particularly new

Ding-ding! Semantics war round 1! Let's get ready to ruuuuuummmmbbblllleeeeeeeeee!

[Pikman]

Manta Ray vs Guitar Posted: Mon Sep 22, 6:14 am

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Come on, dude.

Pikman went through the same worn-out, nonsensical crap you've seen flung at this game a hundred times already.

From

Quote:
Being a fanatical Zelda player since it's first outings on the NES


to

Quote:
I also felt it was aimed at a younger audience than previous installments which again detracted from the overall experience
?

Jesus.

Both of these are annoying comments individually, but when they're in the same pissfest they're just stupid.

Not to say he didn't have any decent points, but be fair.

Care to divulge on why these are annoying, pissfest and stupid comments?

If someone has played every Zelda game released on a Nintendo platform (as I have), the last thing you want is for the latest installment to be targeted at a new and younger audience.

Nintendo have always made games that appeal to all ages, starting off easy enough for a 5 yr old to enjoy but progressivley growing harder to the point where even the most seasoned gamesplayer is challenged. In my opinion this is, and always has been, Nintendo's greatest strength.

Zelda did not do this, the fact that it was aimed solely at a younger audience (and thus didn't challenge me in any way) spoilt the experience.

[npg]

Well, I certainly wasn't offended in any way at all with Pikman's comment's about Windwaker and I see no reason for anyone else to get so upset over the fact that he thinks it's targeted at a younger audience. In fact I agree with him to some extent that it is, although let's make it clear, it's not in the visuals but rather the easier gameplay. Having said that though, I still enjoyed it but for some reason it didn't feel as cohesive as OOT. The other thing is the enemies. It felt repetitive at times seeing the same types and they could have benefited from having a few more varieties.

[Max Zorin]

I think one problem with WW is that in OOT you were in a small, single landmass which gave it the cohesion you're talking about, npg. In WW, you've got a load of islands scattered all over the sea, which may be a nice concept but inevitably makes the experience of playing through the game slightly disjointed.

That actually disappears to an exent, I found, when (or if, in some cases, I suppose) you start doing the side-quests after completing it - the fact that there are so many additional tasks on Windfall Island makes it begin to feel more like the hub of the game, like Hyrule Field but with things to do.

Conclusion: play the side-quests whilst playing through the story, not after. Not something I could ever manage myself, mind

WW is a very interesting addition to the series, for all that, and the story is a good deal cleverer than OOT's - if only they hadn't cut out those other two dungeons and dropped the difficulty. Given as rushing it for a December release in Japan didn't help it sell any less disappointingly than Mario Sunshine over there, here's hoping EAD take their time with the follow-up rather than bowing to commercial pressures. After all, that's exactly what they did with OOT, and that was hardly a flop, now was it?