Edge - Enthusiasm - Gone?

[Treble]

But owing to the very nature of magazines, they *can't* go into enormous, intricate detail about every game's system in every review. They have to give it an overall appraisal in a very small space. It's flawed, but there's no other way, unlike with websites which can go on for thousands of words.

Our reviews tend to be about 1,200 - 1,500 words. Is that significantly more than Edge's? I haven't noticed.

Perhaps, if they don't have 'space' to cover games properly at present, they should think about removing certain, less important, sections of the magazine and concentrate on *shock! horror!* actually reviewing games?

[Sarkster]

Agreed Treb,

Allans reviews are top. But lets for example imagine that he reviewed a game from a genre that he isnt Totally into (not sure if there is one though!) but anyway, it obviously wouldnt be as in-depth because he wouldnt have such a detailed knowledge of that particular genre.

Much the case with Edge I expect. Would you employ one person to solely cover fighting games?

[e_visible]

>>>>Ah, but that's the point - Edge self-consciously promote themselves as a cut above ('Newsnight'), but often their reviews miss the point so badly, and fail to cover the salient and key points (witness Psyvariar and VF4e), that they are as bad as the tabloids ('The Sun').

But the analogy stands. No one is perfect. Sure the odd episode of Newsnight misses the mark / odd Edge review does the same. This does not detract from the fact that both are clearly more serious and analytical than their peers.

I find it difficult to criticise Edge, and to a lesser exent Gamestm, when the rest out there e.g. Officals, Xbox Gamer etc. are sub-Sun standard. The same old crap repackaged loosely every issue. Yet another "preview" of Halo 2 with "new" details etc... 5 pages of speculation, which has been does 5 times before, and each time the quality of the journalism gets worse! Sometimes I feel so ashamed of being conned yet again. Never get that feeling with Edge.

[Squirtle]

Well, when Tokuda writes and publishes his review on here, you read it and tell me which you think manages to both explain it to the n00bs and understands the intricacies of the game better: his or Edge's. I know which my money's on.

I suggest you read the post above yours which i think encapsulates the difference between a web review and a mag review.

edit.

Oh, i see you did. Oops.

[chrisp]

Whilst we're still talking about Edge reviews, this month's have been the first where I've really felt a score is no longer necessary. I never used to think that, and I dont think it now just to sound hardcore, but I feel it would probably end the apparently endless, reiterative debates on the correlations between the text and the score.

[Treble]

None of our reviewers operate in a vacuum. If there is an area we are unsure on, we debate it with the writers who are specialists in that genre, or research using the net.

I wouldn't expect every reviewer to work out all the game's tricks in the more 'hardc0re' genres within a review timelimit - that's practically impossible. I find it hard to believe there aren't Edge staffers who couldn't/don't already do the same thing, i.e. seek advice from people more expert in a certain area than them.

I'm not lambasting the magazine, and would have no issue with it if:

A) It was cheaper. Or bigger, for the price.
B) Not so self-aware, and convinced of its position as the total authority - the bible - on video games. Cos it blatantly f**king isn't these days.

[Mayhem]

I understand that you mean Treb. And I understand why Saurian is pissed about the comments made about VF4E but in fairness, they have to try and cater to everyone dont they?

I like fighting games as much as the next man, but not to the extent of Saurian, where he's all counting frames and mad **** like that.

People who are so into their fighting games (or any other genres) that they focus on totally mastering the game, will already know about the indepth stuff, or will find it out themselves.

If they spent an extra half a page or more explaining (in this instance) move priorities and stuff like that, it would most likely mean nothing to 90% of the readership.

Ah... hello... voice of reason. What I was just about to go type.

I got exactly the same comment as Squirtle back from a mate of mine when I commented that the VF4Evo score was probably too low and perhaps they should have given the review to someone who liked fighting games.

Actually... I'm gonna go and find it to copy/paste in here...

Surely, the problem with giving reviews to "fans of the genre" is that the reviewer is more likely to mark high? Does VF4 Evo deserve a 9/10 score when stacked alongside other non-genre games (Metroid, Zelda, Tetris, whatever...) - in other words, if we take the score as a purely subjective enumeration of a games worth, is it really and truly among the top 20% of games available to buy today? Not "is it the best fighting game?", but "is it the best game?"

Fair point I will admit here...

[Nikorasu]

Sadly gaming has moved on from the 'romantic' period that people like saurian, and myself to an extent would like to see back.

at the end of the day I can appreciate the subtleties in play machanics of a game like Psvarier (sp?), but the gaming culture around me, what my peers are into means that I have no inclination to worry about high score triggers. None of my friends care, as a result, why should I care? I'm not a gaming hermit.

It's the same with VF4e - sure it may well be the finest beat-'em up ever, but at the end of the day, superficially it is similar to VF4. Sure a few people on forums here have travelled to Japan on their own pilgriammages to take part in japanese tournaments, this is a minority of a minority... There's no point in me dedicating ages to frames of animation, because I get no reward for it from my social circle.

Edge I think understands this, they see gaming from an industry wide perspective.

I actually would prefer it if guys like Saurian reviewed the fighters and shmups, but I won;t be losing sleep if edge don;t point out every nuance, after all if I love a game enough, I;d be inclined to do the same.

[chrisp]

But owing to the very nature of magazines, they *can't* go into enormous, intricate detail about every game's system in every review. They have to give it an overall appraisal in a very small space. It's flawed, but there's no other way, unlike with websites which can go on for thousands of words.

Our reviews tend to be about 1,200 - 1,500 words. Is that significantly more than Edge's? I haven't noticed.

Perhaps, if they don't have 'space' to cover games properly at present, they should think about removing certain, less important, sections of the magazine and concentrate on *shock! horror!* actually reviewing games?

It's the same with every magazine though, and there's absolutely no need to expand the review section at the cost of other parts. The only throwaway part of Edge tends to be the often dreary and dull news section, but that's still not worth culling for bigger reviews. As it stands I'd say that their reviews are more than satisfactory, especially in juxtaposition with other publications. What would be the point losing the SNES feature this issue, for example, so they can go into depth about Rayman 3's game mechanics, when a small review (basically) does the job?

[Cacophanus]

Edge I think understands this, they see gaming from an industry wide perspective.

[Nikorasu]

I think a good analogy would be Ferrari refining a car such as the Dino, taking out creature comforts, space age materials, tweaking 0-60 times by .0009s of a second. A thoroughbred.

But in the mean time, there are no roads suitable to drive them, and everybody has kids - they need a Land Rover.

The guys who love the Ferraris go to private race tracks, ie niche forums such as this one. And frankly long may it continue. You guys deliver the depth you need brilliantly, which I appreciate. But I reckon even of edge's hardcore readership, only a minute fraction still care.

[Nikorasu]

Edge I think understands this, they see gaming from an industry wide perspective.

Laugh it up.

[chrisp]

Oh, and have I been a bit silly in not noticing some announcement about AV Out? Byronic Man appears to have replaced it, at least for E123...

[PeteJ]

Surely, the problem with giving reviews to "fans of the genre" is that the reviewer is more likely to mark high? Does VF4 Evo deserve a 9/10 score when stacked alongside other non-genre games (Metroid, Zelda, Tetris, whatever...) - in other words, if we take the score as a purely subjective enumeration of a games worth, is it really and truly among the top 20% of games available to buy today? Not "is it the best fighting game?", but "is it the best game?"

It is an interesting point, and one which I've both agreed with and disagreed on many occasions. Scoring games is sometimes very easy, other times virtually impossible.

At the end of the day though, you need to look at the game on its own pros and cons and score it accordingly, not base it on other games in the genre.

Having said that, in a genre like Driving or fighting, an 'average' game can still be a 'good' game because the quality of the genre is remarkably high. So what to score?

[Nikorasu]

At the end of the day though, you need to look at the game on its own pros and cons and score it accordingly, not base it on other games in the genre.

Surely looking at a game in comparison to other games in the genre is a fundamental part of reviewing?