Edge - Enthusiasm - Gone?

[Bomberman UK]

Finally, and this is an aside: Cacky's stance on Edge. I know you don't like them, and that there's a history to it, but you come across as highly unprofessional banging on about their apparent lack of talent; why don't you prove this to us like a pro by ousting them in the quality-stakes instead of moaning about them--it would serve you better in the long run, IMO.

And it was professional when david_edge called his Otogi review "a piece of ****" on the Edge forums?

[chrisp]

I guess this is the bit which needs clearing up first. The difference is that whilst Tokuda can go into detail as much as he likes (being a website and all, there's no page-enforced word limit), and can focus his attention on this singular review (by the way, sorry Tokuda for having this debate revolve around your work) Edge writers, or indeed, any professional journalist, cannot. It's not that Edge don't have the expertise (no-one here really knows for sure if they do or don't) it's that they don't have the space, or time to go into huge detail a la Tokuda's review, thereby making their review purportedly 'inferior'.

That's crap. I am a professional games journalist and my work is still awesome regardless of wordcount and/or deadlines. Anybody that moans about that is a pansy. It's part of the job and is no excuse for subpar work. The real issue here is that the EDGE crew are incompetent.

I apologise for the vitriol, but EDGE need to earn respect rather than simply claim it.

Yeah, but I was proffering reasons for why they can't go into huge amounts of depth when it's not always entirely necessary. There's a difference between that and quality, and for me Edge is always (well, nearly always) high quality.

[chrisp]

Finally, and this is an aside: Cacky's stance on Edge. I know you don't like them, and that there's a history to it, but you come across as highly unprofessional banging on about their apparent lack of talent; why don't you prove this to us like a pro by ousting them in the quality-stakes instead of moaning about them--it would serve you better in the long run, IMO.

And it was professional when david_edge called his Otogi review "a piece of ****" on the Edge forums?

He said more than that though.

[El Geet]

Just thought I'd toss my hat into the ring. This has somehow turned into a Edge v NTSC-UK debate...which is completely unfair. I think both are excellent in their different ways.

The massive difference IMO is (and I don't mean this in any derogatory sense) that NTSC-UK is a fanzine whereas Edge is not. I don't mean this in that NTSC-UK staff don't get paid. I mean that NTSC-UK are passionate fans of the respective game genres and that shows. Which is good.

Edge on the other hand do attempt to be more dispassionate about it, for better or for worse. As a consumer this is a fantastic arrangement. If I want a more distanced view of a game, a well written review, a review condensed to only salient points and taking a long view (in terms of a 'Gamer's' perspective) then Edge is the one.

If I want another, equally valid and well written, perhaps more detailed review from another more positive viewpoint then NTSC-UK comes up with the goods.

If both NTSC-UK and Edge were on the shelves in printed form I would take them both.

I can see where Saur et al are coming from but as has been said you're talking minutiae and a minority within a minority who want details on aspects that they themselves are best placed to decipher!

I think I'm probably repeating points that have already been made but there we go. Thanks for listening.

[Game Boy]

I am a professional games journalist

So am I, but I don't think chrisp's comment is "crap" at all--deadlines will ALWAYS contrive any writer's attempt to use as few words to convey as much as possible. Time is limited, no matter how "awesome" the writer is.

Plus, Bomberman, what I meant was that Cacky should veer away from continually saying things like "the EDGE crew are incompetent" all the time, it adds a nasty edge to otherwise discursive threads, IMO.

[kona]

Finally, and this is an aside: Cacky's stance on Edge. I know you don't like them, and that there's a history to it, but you come across as highly unprofessional banging on about their apparent lack of talent; why don't you prove this to us like a pro by ousting them in the quality-stakes instead of moaning about them--it would serve you better in the long run, IMO.

And it was professional when david_edge called his Otogi review "a piece of ****" on the Edge forums?

He said more than that though.

Uhm, I can't comment on this incident as I didn't see those comments, but David McCarthy isn't really a model of professionalism. He snipes at his customers (= readers) for any critisism of the magazine however reasonable. FFS the guy used to complain publicly about how he could get more money working at Burger King. I still buy,read, & like Edge (apart from the reviews) but I wouldn't go as far as defending David.

[Nikorasu]

I am a professional games journalist

So am I, but I don't think chrisp's comment is "crap" at all--deadlines will ALWAYS contrive any writer's attempt to use as few words to convey as much as possible. Time is limited, no matter how "awesome" the writer is.

Plus, Bomberman, what I meant was that Cacky should veer away from continually saying things like "the EDGE crew are incompetent" all the time, it adds a nasty edge to otherwise discursive threads, IMO.

Seconded - A publication such as Edge is not the work of amateurs in any way, shape or form. Especially considering how many recent issues have had 14 day turn around rates.

Am I a professional games journalist? Near as dammit.

[Treble]

I agree that there shouldn't be any criticism of Edge as regards professionalism: whether these accusations are valid or not, it inevitably turns everything into an 'us versus them' debate.

I know this might sound like a sudden turn-around on my part, but my opinion is that Edge need to re-focus and understand their target audience better, not that they are inherently poor journalists or writers (they patently are not).

Still, I do believe that a re-evaluation on their part would be a good idea, as the focus of the magazine seems to have blurred - a fact picked-up on by people on their own forums, amongst others.

Perhaps the Edge journalists posting in this thread can ignore the inevitable anger and bias is this thread, and pass on the valid points to the powers that be - I think we'd all benefit from that.

[Cacophanus]

Finally, and this is an aside: Cacky's stance on Edge. I know you don't like them, and that there's a history to it, but you come across as highly unprofessional banging on about their apparent lack of talent; why don't you prove this to us like a pro by ousting them in the quality-stakes instead of moaning about them--it would serve you better in the long run, IMO.

EDGE (Issue 112) had two badly written and poorly researched Armored Core reviews. At the time I was nice and mailed Joao the corrections. They banned me from the forum for my efforts. Fast forward to today, again said Armored Core reviews have met a professional games publication. This time written by someone who knows what they are talking about, me. No mistakes. Their loss.

I bang on about EDGE, not because I want to look good but because it badly needs to be done. The fact that I e-mailed Joao those corrections in the first place is not because I was being "unprofessional", far from it. I did it with a clear focus on the professionalism that EDGE says that it already possesses. It's trade descriptions, pure and simple.

Yeah, but I was proffering reasons for why they can't go into huge amounts of depth when it's not always entirely necessary. There's a difference between that and quality, and for me Edge is always (well, nearly always) high quality.

I think word count is not really the issue here. I have read many very deep but very short reviews of games, written by people who understand the subject matter. It is possible. Nor should the stellar work of NTSC-uk be dismissed under the guise of "fandom". Many of these writers put the "professionals" to shame. The fact that the likes of NTSC-uk are so bloody good only highlights how amateur most games publications are.

I would say that a lot of EDGE is very well written, but that the majority of the "informative content" is woefully lacking. This is unacceptable for a professional games publication. A good use of language is important, but knowledge about the subject matter is utterly paramount.

[Chadruharazzeb]

Why does everyone give such a big **** about Edge? This obsession is really quite baffling to me.

[kona]

I agree that there shouldn't be any criticism of Edge as regards professionalism: whether these accusations are valid or not, it inevitably turns everything into an 'us versus them' debate.

I know this might sound like a sudden turn-around on my part, but my opinion is that Edge need to re-focus and understand their target audience better, not that they are inherently poor journalists or writers (they patently are not).

Still, I do believe that a re-evaluation on their part would be a good idea, as the focus of the magazine seems to have blurred - a fact picked-up on by people on their own forums, amongst others.

Perhaps the Edge journalists posting in this thread can ignore the inevitable anger and bias is this thread, and pass on the valid points to the powers that be - I think we'd all benefit from that.

OK I'll shut up now.


but not until I've said this one last thing:
He also banned Saurian from the forum. And Saurian = gnodab, hence David = badong!

[PeteJ]

Why does everyone give such a big **** about Edge? This obsession is really quite baffling to me.

Whatever, but this is one of the most interesting non-game specific threads I've read in a long time.

I think Edge put too much pressure on themselves. What is it, 4 or 5 core staff members and a 17-day turn around? That's a crazy amount of work; mistakes will happen. I have no idea how much work is done by freelancers though...

Read a magazine like EGM and the staff list fills an entire page?

[Squirtle]

In regards to Edge, the last few issues have been a bit, shall we say, brief. I wonder if this is because they are stretching themselves a bit thin (the retro mags and now the hardware specials they are putting out (i haven't read the PS2 one - is it any good?)). I think one of the quotes in continue/quit says something jokingly about producing 8 mags a month. Maybe this has something to do with the brevity of reviews.

Just a thought.

Oh, and i have witnessed a distressing lack of use of the word cognescenti in recent issues as well.

[Chadruharazzeb]

Whatever, but this is one of the most interesting non-game specific threads I've read in a long time.

Gimme a break, there've been about 4 or 5 Edge threads in the last week alone! They got locked for one reason or another.

What's the big deal?

[marcus]

Move onto something else then and dont read the thread. For the rest of us, me included, this has been a very fascinating and insightful thread. Most people who have posted in this thread have either been long term readers of the magazine, perhaps many subscribe like I do myself, or are generally interested in what they say. This is why it matters to people.