360 VGA 'colours washed' Solution

[gIzzE]

The componet input looks like it is crushing black levels and the vga input looks like all the whites are blooming.
I have got rid of my 360 so I can't test it, but depending on your display will make a big difference to which looks better I would guess.
If you are using an LCD I would think the raised gamma curve of the VGA would help with LCDs poor absolute black level, and if you are using a plasma or a display with better absolute black you would probably be better to use the component cable where you will not get the blooming white levels.

If you input RGBhv over the DVI port you need to tell the screen you are doing this as it will let the screen know what voltage absolute black is, it may also use more/less overscan as well, but the main thing is to tell the screen where black starts in this case.
Think of NTSC and PAL and the 0ire and 7.5ire black levels to get a better idea of how this works.

[HaHaUK]

Jake, have you tried Condemned over VGA?

Using component the game was absolutely pitch black when the flashlight was switched off, now over VGA I can actually see whats going on without the flashlight switched on.

Which one is meant to look correct? Pitch-black or slight visability?

I'll dig out my digicam in a bit and get some pictures up.

[gIzzE]

Guys, each input is going to need calibrating individually, to get absolute black (0 ire) I have my scaler at -26 brightness on one input and -4 on another one.
Just a case of calibrating depending on which input you are going in on.

I can't be bothered to read through all the posts but has anyone tried to calibrate them to see if they can get them looking the same?

[sj33]

Here's the situation as I understand it, from reading here and Xbox-Scene.

-There is a difference between PC level VGA and Video level VGA (differences in colourspace and overscan).

-Most TV's assume PC level for the VGA input (the LG 26/32LX2R featuring an option to choose).

-The 360 outputs video-level VGA, causing a washed image on many PC monitors and LCD TV's which only accept PC level VGA.

What is needed is a dashboard update by MS to let the user select. They can do this, just like they added 1280x1024 support in an update.

[Myth]

The thing is, would it be likely that microsoft would actually release this needed update?

[Gavin]

The thing is, would it be likely that microsoft would actually release this needed update?

Fairly unlikely I'd say...... If it's even possible, depends how the VGA signal is generated.....

[Soi]

Here's the situation as I understand it, from reading here and Xbox-Scene.

-There is a difference between PC level VGA and Video level VGA (differences in colourspace and overscan).

-Most TV's assume PC level for the VGA input (the LG 26/32LX2R featuring an option to choose).

-The 360 outputs video-level VGA, causing a washed image on many PC monitors and LCD TV's which only accept PC level VGA.

What is needed is a dashboard update by MS to let the user select. They can do this, just like they added 1280x1024 support in an update.

I've read the thread on xbox scene and no proof is given regarding the outputting PC levels. Andrewfee seems to think that the 360 always outputs PC levels, and says so in the first page of his TV calibration thread: http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.php?t=51049

It looks like the Xbox 360 uses "PC" video levels for everything; games, dvds and the dashboard. What this means is that full black is represented by 0,0,0 RGB, and White is 255,255,255. All other colours are made up from numbers within this. (eg full red is 255,0,0) Video, on the other hand, uses 16,16,16 for black, and 235,235,235 for white.

This means that the Xbox 360 output will be too bright when watching DVDs, so you will either have to put up with it, have a second setting for your television for DVDs, or use a separate player. (recommended)

It certainly is more likely that the 360 would output PC levels (over VGA especially), given that

i) MS surely would have assumed that most users of the VGA cable would have be using a monitor
ii) and that most LCD screens only support resolutions like 1360x768 over VGA for PC compatibility (meaning that they are likely to be configured to accept PC levels)
iii) the 360 is made from PC components (though I don't really know how relevant this is)

Speculation aside, I'm very happy with my image with my VGA cable -component was too dark even with the brightness set to 100 on my Toshiba 37WLT58 (for example I could never see the grey "B" on the PGR3 test pattern). Component always being too dark is consistent with the 360 outputting PC levels (I think )

As for the colours, on my TV the colour levels with VGA are certainly less than with component, but are still very colourful. Geometry Wars, for example is awash with bright colours -as are the neon signs of Tokyo's night sky in PGR3.

I had my doubts about the VGA picture when I first got the cable, but I am not gonig back to component.

[sj33]

Well, my comment was based on the fact that everyone who it getting a washed image seems to be getting it in PC mode, but not DTV mode.

If what andrewfree says is correct and the 360 is outputting PC levels, why do I get a perfect image in 1280x720 in DTV mode, but a washed image in PC mode (and 1360x768 where my TV assumes PC mode)?
This, along with the fact that people are getting washed images even on PC monitors, suggests to me that the 360 must be outputting video levels (or else people would not be experiencing washed images in PC mode).

[Soi]

I don't have the answers to anything, just pointing out someone else's observations.

Is there a way to actually test, rather than relying on forum chatter? I mean, with a test pattern.

[EvilBoris]

I'm not really fussed about it, I think it looks fantastic through VGA, if they released an update then all the better.

[watusi]

the problem I'm having is that through my panasonic PV500 all resolutions apart from 1024x768 give me a border. and as 1024 is a 4:3 resolution even when i select widescreen mode some games (mainly Quake 4) appear to be run at a 4:3 ratio stretched to 16:9 so you get 'banding' when looking around. I'm gonna give the component cable a go when it arrives and see which I prefer.

[Gavin]

On a PV500, you have to go into the menu's and adjust the position of the screen (like on a PC monitor) at the higher resolutions....

[watusi]

couldn't find the options to do that, do you mean in the service menu's?

[IanR]

I'm waiting for a VGA cable, what else do I need to hook it up to my TV (LG 26lx2r) the VGA to DVi cable that came with the TV appears to have the same connection on the end of it as the VGA cable (both Male I believe).

Is a female vga to dvi adapter readily available?

[andrewfee]

The 360's VGA cable comes with a gender changer, so as long as the DVI end fits into your TV (probably male) it wouldn't be a problem what gender the VGA end is.