360 VGA 'colours washed' Solution

[Concept]

Urgh, if they'd just release a DVI or HDMI cable, we'd have none of this problem.

Microsoft will. It's a matter of time. If the PS3 launches with a HDMI cable accessory, then Microsoft should counter.

[Concept]

I've managed to reduce the ghosting problem by quite a large amount. I know some of you will be adverse to this, but try putting the 360 into 1080i - the text ghosting has all but disappeared, and 1080i surprisingly looks a lot better than I expected on the 360.

Edit: It's all but disappeared.

[andrewfee]

It's a bit of a pain, you can do that with the LG VGA set to PC mode, but in DTV mode it annoyingly doesn't allow it. Madness.

Which is good news, as the Xbox 360 outputs "PC" levels over both component and VGA. PC levels are 0-255 representing black to white, whereas Video levels (presumably what DTV is) uses 16-235. If you were running in "DTV" mode you would have been cutting off shadow and highlight detail.

My VGA cable arrived this morning, so I've now got it hooked up and I am very happy with it. I have checked all resolutions and the colour vibrancy / brightness is identical on all settings, and is perfect; it must be how your display is handling the resolutions if you are seeing a difference between them. If VGA is looking too "dull" then you've probably just had your "colour" control set too high on your television; the saturation / "colour vibrancy" is spot-on.

My only complaint is that there are no overall "brightness" or "gamma" options in the X360 dashboard. (I thought they may have been enabled when using a VGA cable; just like the original Xbox hid progressive options unless you had component hooked up)

My setup is purely temporary just now (Samsung's service centre have had my HDTV for 15 weeks now...) so I have an old "Hansol" 17" CRT Monitor hooked up. Previously it was connected at 480i via an XRGB2+ which had onboard gamma controls.

The display is rather old now, and having just calibrated it; it's native gamma is 4.12! (very dark! anything less than 10% grey is basically black, unfortunately I have no controls that can change gamma) Colour accuracy is still nearly perfect, with 30-100 IRE all having a DeltaE vs D65 of 1 or less, however. Unfortunately, only Kameo/Perfect Dark Zero and Condemned seem to have brightness controls, so I have a hard time playing anything else.

Hopefully I won't be running this setup much longer though. My retailer has finally agreed to give me a refund for the Samsung, although it has to be shipped to me from the service centre, and then collected before they
can do this. By that time I hope the new Philips sets with Aptura backlighting will be out, as it would be silly of me not to wait now.

[sj33]

How is the 1360x768 upscaling to your eyes andrewfree?

[Concept]

I'm getting odd spot flickering on 1080i on black screens. Damn it.

[themanwithapc]

I've managed to reduce the ghosting problem by quite a large amount. I know some of you will be adverse to this, but try putting the 360 into 1080i - the text ghosting has all but disappeared, and 1080i surprisingly looks a lot better than I expected on the 360.

Edit: It's all but disappeared.

But 1080i isn't as smooth (motion wise) as 720p.

Sorry to see you've packed away the VGA cable Jake. I'm now torn between having to settle for below par colour representation or putting up with those damn shadows. Dammit MS, get your finger out and give us a 'proper' connection

[Concept]

1080i is actually okay, but there's weird flickering going on (and I don't mean of the interlaced sort).

[sj33]

I've caved again and dug out the VGA cable, determined to get it to work.

Took a different approach this time. Set the 360 up 1360x768 upscaling, and to counter the washing, set the brightness to 0 (which I believe andrewfree once recommended before?), and Contrast to 100. Looks a little better now, much more... what I'd consider correct.

Main issue with 1360x768 mode seems to be that it's much blurrier than setting to 1280x720 and letting the TV scale it. There's no Sharpness guage with VGA either.

I don't understand what I did.... at first 1280x720 mode worked fine, with small boarders. Now it overscans chronically when set to DTV mode, and looks about the same as 1360x768 in PC mode. I'd like to just put it all back to how it was yesterday, with the slight boarders, but I don't know what I did to change it =/

That said, hides the jaggies =P

[sj33]

I don't understand what I did.... at first 1280x720 mode worked fine, with small boarders. Now it overscans chronically when set to DTV mode, and looks about the same as 1360x768 in PC mode. I'd like to just put it all back to how it was yesterday, with the slight boarders, but I don't know what I did to change it =/

I've actually solved this now!

Just throws me back at square 1 of sorting out the boarders =/ Would like to know why it only happens in DTV mode.

[HaHaUK]

I've actually solved this now!

Just throws me back at square 1 of sorting out the boarders =/ Would like to know why it only happens in DTV mode.

How big are the borders?

And what is the difference between PC mode and DTV mode? When I tried it out with my laptop both looked the same.

[Gavin]

Where's this setting for DTV/PC mode...are we talking on the 360 or on Jake's TV here?

[HaHaUK]

Where's this setting for DTV/PC mode...are we talking on the 360 or on Jake's TV here?

The TV.

[sj33]

Not huge, I'd just like to get rid of them. And if the TV had auto-config mode in DTV mode as well as PC mode, then I could.
The problem can be somewhat reduced by messing with the Phase in Service Menu->Screen Settings. I'm convinced the solution is in there actually, if anyone else cares to try.

As for DTV/PC mode, it looks the same on my PC too, but when using it on any other device, PC mode looks a bit washed, probably because of the difference in RGB colourspace andrewfree mentioned.

[sj33]

Solution to the boarders!

Hardly an elegant solution, but going to Service Menu->Screen Settings, rasing the Clock seems to increase the image size horizontally. You can only go so far, but if you exit the Service Menu and re-enter it, you can increase it more.

[andrewfee]

How is the 1360x768 upscaling to your eyes andrewfree?

The colour etc is all exactly the same. It's very slightly softer than 1280x720, but only when I'm right up at the screen.

I'm now torn between having to settle for below par colour representation or putting up with those damn shadows. Dammit MS, get your finger out and give us a 'proper' connection ft:

The colour representation is perfect, with the official VGA cable at least, I don't know how a Joytech one fares. If it looks washed out, either your television settings are wrong, or it's just how your screen handles VGA.

I've caved again and dug out the VGA cable, determined to get it to work.

Took a different approach this time. Set the 360 up 1360x768 upscaling, and to counter the washing, set the brightness to 0 (which I believe andrewfree once recommended before?), and Contrast to 100. Looks a little better now, much more... what I'd consider correct.

Zero sounds awfully low for brightness, as does 100 for contrast. (isn't it blindingly bright?)

See this topic to help you set things properly:

http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.php?t=51049

Note: For some reason, it's telling me I don't have permission to reply to it. I have found that I made a mistake with the pattern to set game brightness on the 360.

I created a 1,1,1 square when it should have been a 1% grey square in the middle. (3,3,3) This should hopefully work on all displays now, as someone said the original didn't. The new image is now 720p:

http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/2...meblack6ln.jpg

Follow the same instructions, but use this image instead.

The brightness control only sets the "black level" - basically which point on the brightness scale is solid black. Having it set incorrectly will "wash out" colours, but if it is set properly and is still "washed out" you should adjust the "colour" control. You should not lower brightness.

Main issue with 1360x768 mode seems to be that it's much blurrier than setting to 1280x720 and letting the TV scale it. There's no Sharpness guage with VGA either.

I don't understand what I did.... at first 1280x720 mode worked fine, with small boarders. Now it overscans chronically when set to DTV mode, and looks about the same as 1360x768 in PC mode. I'd like to just put it all back to how it was yesterday, with the slight boarders, but I don't know what I did to change it =/

That said, hides the jaggies =P

It's possible that your television has a better scaler, or that your television is doing some image processing when it scales. (adding sharpness, for example) Either way, you should use whichever looks best.

As for overscan; it makes sense that "DTV" uses overscan, as video content should have some. As I mentioned earlier though; the DTV mode is likely using Video black & white (16,235) instead of PC black & white (0,255) which the X360 uses, so I would stick with the "PC" mode.