The most exciting time of gaming is...

[Papercut]

Blanket statements like 'buying a Japanese PS2 at launch is elitist' are meaningless in my opinion.

Considering that no one has said that, I think we're okay.

It was clearly implied.

[insin_]

I like games.

[marcus]

If you gain satisfaction from owning something that others do not, then yes you are. If you just enjoy the console for what it is, then no.

Well I dont think of it as I have something that others do not at all, I do enjoy the feeling of owning something brand new and the community spirit that comes with it however.

Does that make me elitest?

I guess you can make your own mind up about that. Personally I think it makes me an enthusiastic gamer who enjoys experiencing new things and sharing these experiences with others.

[Papercut]

If I buy something new, hell I'll excited, I'll post on these boards and get wrapped up in the fervour as much as anyone else. What I won't do though is get enjoyment from the fact that I'm one of a lucky few.

I have already said that there is something very exciting about getting a launch console for the reasons you explain. Where I disagree with comments implied elsewhere in this thread is that as more people are able to own launch consoles that the feeling of excitement will lesson because of the lack of exclusivity. It's a thinly veiled attempt to say "importing was more exciting when only the hardcore could do it, not just Mr Joe Average".

About the pioneering comment, I can see what is meant by those early adopters who pioneer modfications and check to see if different peripherals works together and so on. What I fail to see is how if there are more early adopters how this will be dimished?

Put simply, there are less unknowns. It's more to do with the Internet and the speed of information, than it is to do with more people being early adoptors.

Remember when you could only rely on your local import emporium for info on new consoles? There were a lot of unknowns, you were taking a bit of a gamble buying one. I would say that is inherently more exciting, discovering the new for yourself.

So I'd say there is a valid argument for early adoption being exciting.

I agree that the 'I've got it and you don't' argument sucks ass. There is a correlation though, unfortunately.

People are not being labelled elitist for being early adopters. People are being labelled elitist for a feeling of superiority over those less fortunate than them. Funny enough, it's the elitest people who seem unable to spot this huge difference.

I'd say its the other way around, oh well

[Brats]

So I'd say there is a valid argument for early adoption being exciting.

Where did I say it wasn't exciting? I totally agree that buying at launch is the most exciting time, I just said that I didn't do it because the increased cost didn't warrant it (imo).

I do think that the word "pioneer" is a little strong for early adopter and this is what I argued with. Risk taker maybe, which I agree can be part of the enjoyment (and is not elitist in the slightest) .

Well I dont think of it as I have something that others do not at all, I do enjoy the feeling of owning something brand new and the community spirit that comes with it however.

Does that make me elitest?

Not at all, they're all positive points that I applaud .

However, you did say earlier in this thread :

being one of the early adopters of such an item is always a great feeling (some say it doesnt matter, Im sure everyone secretly enjoys the fact they are playing something that others are not able to)

and

whether it be a game or console you are talking about, having something thats relatively exclusive is always a nice feeling which is also why people buy nice Ltd edition consoles that no-one else has

So you can't blame people for mentioning "that" word earlier in this thread .

[replicant]

In that case so am I elitest?

If you gain satisfaction from owning something that others do not, then yes you are. If you just enjoy the console for what it is, then no.

This has got to be the only hobby I have witnessed with such comments towards fellow hobbiests it purely because they own superior, or more recent equipement.

Im very interested in photography, and I have a decent camera. However I know people with far more expensive equipement who happily discuss the features of the newer tech present. It never enters my mind shout out elitest with insecurity in my voice. Why? Because I am interested in what they have to say, plus I am happy with my own gear and feel no need to act in a jealous manner.

On various PC tech forums I have visited recently I have noticed that the vast majority of members display their PC specs in their signatures. Now while this might sound silly to us, its part of their community. Not once have I seen any member be termed elitest because on their signature is displayed extremely expensive PC equipement. Now, displaying the PC specs doesn't effect their enjoyment of their actual equipement so are they being elitest in doing so? Or is it acceptable for the members with older pcs to display their machines specifications, but not the guys who have invested a lot of cash into theirs?

Do you see my point? To me it appears that anyone who discusses new consoles etc, can be termed elitest if they enjoy mentioning on the forum something like "Ive just got my PS3". Why is that wrong? Is it not enthusiasm, and the wish to discuss it? What if someone popped on and posted "I've just got my PS2!" Is that being elitest to a member who only owns a PSX? We are an import forum. Therefore is a member being elitest when they mention that they just picked up Viewtiful Joe? Im being a bit long winded here, but I hope you see the point I am slowly trying to make.

Last night on irc one of us mentioned they had bought a new amp. That person gave us a link to it, told us about it and we talked about amps. Was he being elitest in telling us he had just bought a new amp? Afterall telling us on irc didn't improve the sound quality of it. Of course its not elitest. Its being excited, and wanting to tell others about it. Nothing wrong in it, and it was nice to see the new amp. Which btw, is better than mine.

When does quality of life come into it? When does enjoying yourself come into it? As far as I am concerned if someone is in the position to afford the luxuries that they wish then they have that right to do so. What I find interesting is that everyone on this forum who uses the term elitest towards other members, will in their own way have been "elitest" themselves. I dont like the term, but its your term so Ill use it. Everyone will have at some point purchased a status item. Something which makes them feel good, and stand out in company be it expensive glasses, expensive clothes, expensive hair cut, expensive car etc, etc. There will have been perfectly functionable alternatives to your purchases, yet you did't go for them. Thats human nature. Theres nothing wrong in wanting to look good, feel good, and stand out amongst your friends, collegues, and peers.

And it doesn't have to be through purchases. For example, Treble you are quick to term me as being elitest, yet you have acted aloof when your writing is questioned. I don't want to offend you, but its a valid point that maybe you shouldn't be quick to term others something, which you can be yourself I don't want to single out Treble, but its the first example which came to mind. I bet for everyone who has called out elitest!! in this thread, that I could think of a time when that person acted high, and mighty towards another member (with the exception of Jez maybe, but I'll get one:P)

[Corrupt Rose]

I don't think the issue is when people say "Look, I've just got a PS3!", but rather when they say "Look, I've got a PS3! Kiss my Arse, feel my smugness, and acknowledge the inherent superiority a box full of zappy electrobits gives me!".

I know the difference is subtle here... but still.



- Corrupt Rose

[2 Point]

[This has got to be the only hobby I have witnessed with such comments towards fellow hobbiests it purely because they own superior, or more recent equipement.

That is true, but if in these other forums one of the hobbiests started a thread brandishing the concept that to own something first, in an exclusive and restricted market at inflated prices, gives greater pleasure/satisfaction for the buyer than one who buys later, they would get the response being shown here.

The tone and direction was set from the start.

[Brats]

Request to admins: Can we have a smiley banging his head against a wall, please?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christ almighty Rep, do you actually read what other people type of just skim over it and assume the answer?

This has got to be the only hobby I have witnessed with such comments towards fellow hobbiests it purely because they own superior, or more recent equipment.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo...........

You really haven't got a clue where I'm coming from, have you? Comments towards other members are not purely because they own superior or more recent equipment. That is wrong, incorrect, false. Ergo so is the rest of your long post.

This is how it is: People have mentioned the word elitist because some people have admitted that they get enjoyment from knowing that they own something that others do not have over and above getting enjoyment from the item itself.

THAT IS ELITIST!!!!

Just the same way as if your photographer friends got enjoyment from owning a rare lens, that is not elitist on its own. But getting enjoyment from the fact that others can't afford it is elitist.

AFAIK this is the only hobby where some people imply that the enjoyment will decrease as more people become involved. And that is incredibly elitist and is blight on our beloved hobby. In your first post, the point about Japanese launches being the most exciting was fine. It was the second point about a lack of exclusivity reducing the enjoyment that I have a problem with.

Why is the distinction so difficult for you to understand?

(Papercut: I rest my case )

[Papercut]

here:

[Brats]

Cheers

[JRMacumber]

Blanket statements like 'buying a Japanese PS2 at launch is elitist' are meaningless in my opinion.

Considering that no one has said that, I think we're okay.

It was clearly implied.

I suppose that depends on your own persecution complex. I think the distinction has been made pretty clear. If you buy expensive and rare games/systems because it makes you happy and more fulfilled, that's good, but if you do it to feel superior and just because you can, then you're elitist. I really don't think that point's been muddied any.

[JRMacumber]

This is how it is: People have mentioned the word elitist because some people have admitted that they get enjoyment from knowing that they own something that others do not have over and above getting enjoyment from the item itself.

THAT IS ELITIST!!!!

Brats, that is a perfect definition. Thank you.

[JoeK]

If you buy expensive and rare games/systems because it makes you happy and more fulfilled, that's good, but if you do it to feel superior and just because you can, then you're elitist. I really don't think that point's been muddied any.

Although, to be fair, one of the main reasons people do buy consoles is because they can...be that from generous parents, sugar daddies, poker winnings etc...

On a serious point, I think Brats wins the argument fair and square.

Personally, it's never occurred to me to buy something because no-one else has it...

Sure, I'm quite happy to extol the virtues of what I have to anyone daft enough to listen to my inane enthusiams, but on the whole, I buy the things because I just enjoy gaming...

Quite honestly, apart from posting on a couple of forums, I don't talk about gaming much at all...most of the crowd I know are far too busy having babies, worrying about morgages etc and have no love of gaming at all.

(my friends are all fools, but there we go).

The closest I got to boasting about a purchase was inviting a girlfriend over and showing her my computer...

And that was only because it's a pretty colour...

I have however been in stores where there have been some foul smelling bastards mouth off about their purchases of things like Steel Battalion etc, curiously bragging more about how much they paid for the thing, rather than whether it was actually any good or not...

Oh well.

[Baroque]

Elitist
nomeone who believes in rule by an elite group.

Elitism
(1) n : The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

(2) a: The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
b: Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

If enjoying a Japanese console launch, just-because-you-can is in someway elitist, then so is importing games because you're not inclined to buy PAL releases.

I don't see anything in the definition of "elitist", or "elitism" about lording things over the "less fortunate", that isn't elitism that's a mixture of arrogance & vulgarity.

Elitism is a system where you believe you are better because of xyz, and feel you should be treated better because of it. There's nothing in there about actually being a loudmouth and banging on that you're better because of xyz, that's a different matter.

That's like the difference between old money and new money. Both may be elitists, but it's the new money who are usually vulgar about what they have.