Are we crap or wot?

[Ian(not Ian)]

I'm well 'appy with the Diablo iii announcement, wait, was that not pre-E3?
Anyhoo. GOW2, Fable2, Resistance2, that nice Killzone2, AC2 and suchlike were all on the cards. Big reveals are ol' hat. Said big reveals usually reveal something that's 18 months away, ie after next year's E3, so why bother revealing it? leave it till next year when you're almost at release time for goodness sake. If I could be bothered I'd check back on previous E3s to see which reveals actually appeared two years running.

Megatons

Who needs them?

[abigsmurf]

Frankly I think it's pretty easy to argue that this E3 *was* the worst ever, or at least the worst since the show became high profile. It wasn't so much the games on show which were pretty good (aside from Nintendo who didn't even have good unsurprising games on show)

E3 wasn't about showing videos of titles in the past, it was about unveiling new titles. With youtube, gametrailers etc. We don't need game shows to watch videos. Instead, companies should be using these shows to show us something we haven't seen before, When the world is watching it really should be a case of the companies all trying to out do each other with announcements.

Yes we get passionate talking about these things but if you can't fully vent amongst fellow geeks, who can you vent at?

Anyone who's done reviewing here would probably tell you that writing about a really bad game/film/etc. you hate can often be as entertaining as writing about a good one. Heck listen to Mark Kermode's podcast, when he rips into a title it's hugely entertaining.

[Dogg Thang]

If all of these games had been saved to E3 and announced then, many of us would be saying 'Best E3 Evar'.

Quite possibly. But they weren't. That to me says less about gamers being 'crap' and more about E3 now being redundant.

Don't be so ashamed by your fellow gamers, Brats. There are gob****es in all walks of life.
Anyway, while we wait for some releases, we can kill time by playing Bratz Ponyz (don't think we don't know why you chose your username) and the like.

[Uli]

i wasn't expecting much, let alone a "megaton" announcement. my expectation were actually very moderate - some still unofficial games finally getting official and a glimpse or confirmation of successors to some of my favourite game franchises like say Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon or Halo. in the end none of my little expectations have been fulfilled - and this is troubling me.

[Matt]

Did anyone expect a Megaton? I know I didn't. I like the look of quite a few of the titles MS and Sony showed, as well as many third party titles. Nintendo showed nothing that I'd want to play, and that's the big disappointment given their status, history and talent.

I'd have liked a shock announcement or two. That's why you sit through the presentations anyway, isn't it? It wasn't to be. That in itself was a shock I suppose

So are gamers "crap" because they have high expectations and expect games?

Don't forget, this year comes after one of the best gaming years ever. Last year, games were reaching a new level. Many think we'll refer to the year in the future as a Golden Time for Gaming. They may be right. So our expectations of what a game can do are higher than ever. Are we supposed to be happy that, to all intents and purposes, it looks like the progress and promise of 2007 has come and gone?

So people moan about E3. Big deal. I've moaned quite a bit about the Nintendo conference in particular because it was crap. Remember the infamous Sony show from a few years back, that was mocked because it was crap? Now Nintendo do a really bad show, which may rival the low point of the Sony show, but we're supposed to ignore it because they've since said, "Hey it's ok gamers, it was only E3, you shouldn't expect games at a games show". Or are we supposed to ignore the crapness of it because it was, you know, Nintendo?

There is nothing wrong with having high expectations. If no-one had any expectations, we'd all be happy with what we have and not strive for more.

[Leon Retro]

Most people who visit game forums - are game junkies, that's a fact. Obsessive, compulsive, simply crazy about videogames.

Casuals live their lives - buy one console, see an advert on tv proclaiming "Need For Speed: Olympic Edition" ... to be the best thing ever - so they go into GAME and buy it.

Casual people aren't wishing, dreaming, hungry for brilliant gaming experiences. They are far more relaxed about the whole gaming scene.

I don't think serious/hardcore gamers should adopt a casual attitude. If everyone had been casual about gaming in the 80/90s - the market would have never grown, and I bet the industry wouldn't have recovered from its crash in the mid 80s.

It's the obsessive gamers, who have an unhealthy passion for the medium, that have made the games industry so big & mighty.

If casual gaming suddenly faded away - the publishers/devs would soon be running back to the serious/hardcore gamers, begging for forgiveness, and pandering to their every whim.

The reason people have moaned about E3/Nintendo/Sega etc.... is because they want the industry to deliver tons of exciting games - so they can buy them and have fun. The realisition that the industry isn't very bothered about their desires - and would rather give the casuals stuff like " Wii Limbo " is enough to make a lot of seasoned gamers depressed.

[cutmymilk]

Maybe its because there are so many shows? Impossible to MEGATON each one. There should maybe just one AWESOME show.

[charlesr]

Maybe it would be a lot easier if it was just the media that was up for critique. i.e. when films are announced we don't all sit around going "gah, philips DVD players had a naff outing" or "my tesco own brand DVD player didn't do so well at cannes this year". They all have almost exactly the same functionality.

Unfortunately, there are 3 banner corporations we can critique as well. And compare to each other.

[vanpeebles]

I couldn't name five games that was shown at E3, I couldn't tell you where it was or who was in it and I don't care. I play games as they come to me and get released. I reckon most of my gaming time is spent, 95% gaming and 5% reading on the net about them, I don't buy mags either.

All these stupid shows are mainly about brash PR and wooing stupid journos.

[Ady]

All these stupid shows are mainly about brash PR and wooing stupid journos.

...and getting people worked up on video game forums.

[Brats]

So are gamers "crap" because they have high expectations and expect games?

Yes, I think we are. There's a difference between hope and expectation. If you expect something, you have some degree of certainty that it will happen.

Don't forget, this year comes after one of the best gaming years ever. Last year, games were reaching a new level. Many think we'll refer to the year in the future as a Golden Time for Gaming. They may be right. So our expectations of what a game can do are higher than ever. Are we supposed to be happy that, to all intents and purposes, it looks like the progress and promise of 2007 has come and gone?

But this 'progress' isn't on a linear path. There are amazing years and just good years (I can't think of a bad year) and we know from past experience that each year doesn't simply build on the overall greatness of before. It's completely unrealistic to expect 2009 to equal or better 2008. You can hope as we all do as I said above, but to actually expect something is how a spoilt child would act.

So people moan about E3. Big deal. I've moaned quite a bit about the Nintendo conference in particular because it was crap. Remember the infamous Sony show from a few years back, that was mocked because it was crap? Now Nintendo do a really bad show, which may rival the low point of the Sony show, but we're supposed to ignore it because they've since said, "Hey it's ok gamers, it was only E3, you shouldn't expect games at a games show". Or are we supposed to ignore the crapness of it because it was, you know, Nintendo?

Pardon? Quote where I said we should ignore it? You've just perfectly illustrated my point. I'm saying we gamers should discuss things without having unrealistic expectations or making broad assumptions on limited information. You've interpreted that as we shouldn't talk about it at all!

It seems that when these debates start, the part in some people's brain that controls logically, rational thought breaks down.

And I think some people are confusing passion with just making noise. Just because we are passionate, doesn't give us a reason to turn into children. What's wrong with being passionate and discussing things in a level headed manner?

Sometimes I think the good old British reserve has been lost. Is the guy who rants on a forum passionate, or does he just have anger management issues?

[Brats]

It's the obsessive gamers, who have an unhealthy passion for the medium, that have made the games industry so big & mighty.

Do you really believe that statement? Or is it a case that it would nice to think it's true, so you believe it anyway?

I don't think that's true at all. If I think of all the successful machines through the ages (VCS, NES, SNES, Genesis, PS1, PS2) only a handful of the total audience fall into the obsessive compulsive gamer that you mention. Most of the audience were buying one or two games a year maximum.

What has really grown the market is that the children who have been used to computers have grown up, resulting in more of all types of gamers. But the actual ratio between hardcore/casual hasn't changed.

That's not to say we aren't important - we buy more games and we can be a useful barometer of what is good and bad. However that barometer becomes useless if we frequently overreact. The impression I get now is that the big three are less concerned about the hardcore because we have become so fickle and demanding.

The casual market is easier. They don't expect anything, but they get excited if you give them something new. They don't boycott a game because of a frame rate or because has some features dropped. Their only quality measure is 'is it fun?'.

Which is how it should be.

[BeyondJumpFish]

I think its importent for us "hardcore" gamers to expect games to run in 60fps and be in HD now. Just like how the speccy was monocrome and then the C64 came out we wanted everything in colour.
As for E3 i think it was very disapointing but i think maybe its because we have been spoilt in the past with the likes of MGS4 and Mario galaxy. We have Gears 2 and Resi 5 to look forward to so its not all bad. Games have become very big and expencive to make so we can't expect a massive game to be unvailed every year...or can we? We do all have some kind of expectation of a big budget movie every year now...

[Matt]

Sometimes I think the good old British reserve has been lost. Is the guy who rants on a forum passionate, or does he just have anger management issues?

I don't see anyone ranting here man. I see people questioning Nintendos decisions to focus their show entirely on casual gamers. I see people questioning the lack of any "Wow!" moments at this years E3.

I don't think questioning these issues makes anyone "crap". It's certainly better to have expectations and demand game companies make the best games they can, and games that interest us, than to bend over and accept whatever we're given.

And saying to expect something is being a spoilt child is rather amusing. Last year raised game levels, expectations rises accordingly. Again, not a bad thing.

In fact I totally fail to see the point of this entire discussion. You're not happy because some people aren't happy at the games shown at E3 right? TBH it's not just a few of us here belating E3, it's the gaming press as a whole. It's not an isolated case of a few "spoilt children" having temper tantrums (certainly not on this site, at least). The gaming press themselves declare the event a bit of a washout and highlight Nintendo's lack of traditional games.

Maybe it's because, you know, E3 was bad!

I still maintain that if Sony had done the Nintendo show (same hyperbolic presenters, same lack of decent content), they'd be killed by everyone here, including those defending Nintendo.

[Dogg Thang]

In fact I totally fail to see the point of this entire discussion.

I'm with you on that. If anything, we rock more than ever.