Are we crap or wot?

[Brats]

The 'we' being us lot - gamers.

I've watched with interest all the recent threads (on this forum and others) about E3, Nintendo's apparently change of focus and lack of XBox 360 free demos. I've don't think I've seen so much energy, anger and insistence in ages. If this was a forum about curing cancer, we'd have sorted it by the second day of E3.

Personally I think our expectations, reactions and assumptions have become out of balance. We've had some great E3s before and quite a few okayish ones. Now people expect a MEGATON or it's 'the worst E3 ever'. But with costs and development times being what they are now, the chances of a big reveal in these times are greatly dimished.

We demand new announcements of new games, but we don't just want just the announcement or a CG video, we want to see the actual game running, preferably in people's hands. And we don't want a 10fps jog-fest (else it gets torn apart) we want it to look like it will play when we buy it.

With long development times and budgets, aren't these expectations unreasonable to demand for every trade event? It's not like anyone can crack out a game in a few months now. How many big reveals of a previously un-announced game can you think of in the last three years? LBP, a game in development for a long time at atiny studio is one. Are there many others?

Nintendo have just had a single trade show where they showed little for traditional gamers. So they have apparently 'abandoned' traditional gamers for good (despite having released one of the greatest traditional games of all time only half a year before). Logically does it make sense that all the great designers at Nintendo have jointly agreed to do this, or is it more likely that they just didn't have anything ready to show? Surprisingly, the noise now coming out seems to point at the latter.

It's not as if Nintendo delivered their AAA games at a fast rate in the past. Excellence takes time. You have always had to wait for them in the past - why is that likely to be any different now?

It seems that gamers (more than any other group of people) are so quick to expect the very best and then condemn something when it doesn't meet that lofty expectation. We then jump to conclusions and always assume the very worst, even though experience should show us that the worst rarely comes to pass.

I don't know if the solitary confinement and lack of sun causes a lot of pent up rage? Maybe games do make you violent? It just seems that some people's behaviour isn't that far away from 'I want my chocolate milk!!!'.

[huxley]

The thing is most of the people who post here cant be classed as normal gamers, in respect of the ammount of money we spend on our hobby/past time.
So its only natural for us to have much higher expectations of new products coming out for us to consume.

[Spatial]

The thing is most of the people who post here cant be classed as normal

How dare you!

[Brats]

The thing is most of the people who post here cant be classed as normal gamers, in respect of the ammount of money we spend on our hobby/past time.
So its only natural for us to have much higher expectations of new products coming out for us to consume.

Is it though? Film and music fans don't seem to have the same fickle nature as we do. It seems unique to gamers.

[huxley]

Sorry Spatial101.

@Brats I`ll stick by what I said, but I guess the same could be said for some film and music fans. IE people who follow an artist for a longer period of time instead of the fast burn type of artists.
Example - teenagers who follow the likes of bros, spice girls etc untill they grow pubes.

Having said that I`ve been a fan of kmfdm for about 20 years, you should see some of the comments on some of the fan forums.

[Dogg Thang]

I don't know if I agree. Actually, I think I disagree. I don't think most people were expecting a 'MEGATON'. As someone with three games consoles and two handhelds, all I was hoping for was enough decent games to keep me playing.

I saw some I'm curious about, a few of which could turn out to be pretty good, but not much. Oh, there's a bunch of stuff sitting on release schedules but it is absolute cack. It's like the latter days of the GBA all over the place and all I expected from E3 was some good games to balance that out.

The idea that there was loads of stuff that they didn't show could turn out to be true but here's the thing - they didn't show it. So, right now, it's nothing. Reminds me of some person here (insult held back because I can't remember who it was) who suggested that the Wii was waaaaaay more powerful but Nintendo was holding it back and releasing GC-quality shots so that the awesome power would be a surprise.

I don't think expecting good games is unreasonable or 'crap'.

[Profit]

It should come as no surprise why the mass media berates gamers.

There's no doubt gaming lend itself to social isolation more than other media. Like how there's truth to the saying "there's nothing for the socially deprived to do apart from go to the pub and smoke"; a new generation of similarly placed youngsters are in a similar situation with gaming.

[PeteJ]

I understand your point, but it isn't just gamers that feel this way:

“In our view, E3 is headed for extinction, unless the publishers and console manufacturers wake up to the fact that nobody cares about the show anymore,”

Industry anaylst Michael Patcher.

“I hate E3 like this. Either we need to go back to the old E3, or we’ll have to have our own private events.”

EA CEO John Riccitiello.

“I used to bring major investors to E3 to get them excited about our industry, which worked every time. Now it’s just an embarrassment.
“Thankfully we still have GDC to bring them to, if they want to see the talent, passion, and energy this industry has.”

David Perry (Shiney)

Maybe we (gamers) are looking at E3 in a different light to them (developers), us expecting huge news and them expecting huge business, but the whole show is clearly not popular at the moment.

[Dezm0nd]

It's more apparent in the gaming world as Games and internet come together, so we see it more. But as a long term Prodigy fan, i've seen some seriously anger written forum threads in the Prodigy scene which isn't on the official forum.

[Ady]

Good post.

I understand it's not unreasonable to expect at least something of note at E3, but we all know the show has been declining for years, so a disappointing show shouldn't be that much of a surprise anymore.

[Brats]

I don't know if I agree. Actually, I think I disagree. I don't think most people were expecting a 'MEGATON'. As someone with three games consoles and two handhelds, all I was hoping for was enough decent games to keep me playing.

I saw some I'm curious about, a few of which could turn out to be pretty good, but not much. Oh, there's a bunch of stuff sitting on release schedules but it is absolute cack. It's like the latter days of the GBA all over the place and all I expected from E3 was some good games to balance that out.

The idea that there was loads of stuff that they didn't show could turn out to be true but here's the thing - they didn't show it. So, right now, it's nothing. Reminds me of some person here (insult held back because I can't remember who it was) who suggested that the Wii was waaaaaay more powerful but Nintendo was holding it back and releasing GC-quality shots so that the awesome power would be a surprise.

I don't think expecting good games is unreasonable or 'crap'.

No it's not. It depends on your tastes and if you thought there were no good games at all (new or annouced previously) then that's fair enough. Personally I thought there were a lot of great games that would appeal to a lot of people - just ones that we knew about already (LBP, Resi 5, Gears 2, Fable 2, Animal Crossing, Resistance 2, Geo Wars 2, Banjo and loads of others I can't remember to list).

If all of these games had been saved to E3 and announced then, many of us would be saying 'Best E3 Evar'. I believe many were expecting a big announcement of something new. You could tell by the comments as it went: 'MS show was crap, let's hope Nintendo have something. Nintendo show was crap, let's hope Sony show something'. Why are we clamouring so much for the new thing when so many of the great games coming out this year we have yet to play?

Maybe we (gamers) are looking at E3 in a different light to them (developers), us expecting huge news and them expecting huge business, but the whole show is clearly not popular at the moment.

E3 clearly has its problems for developers and publishers in the current format, but if the format had stayed like two years ago and the same games had been shown, we'd all still be moaning.

I could kind of understand if I spent money to fly to the US and ended up with a disappointing show. But all any of us did was watch a live feed of the shows (which was our own choice - we could have waited and caught up). It's not like they were at unreasonable times either.

Yes the show was a relatively low key affair this year, but that doesn't explain some of the hysteria generated. Yes there are nutters on every forum, but that doesn't explain why gamers seem to be worse. This is one of the best forums on the net with a reasonably mature attitude - but that all gets flattened when something like this happens.

It's not just E3. Look back at thread when the Halo beta was delayed by a few hours, or when Windwaker was announced for the first time. It's cringeworthy stuff.

[eastyy]

the way i see it with games and nintendo stuff is for me personally more focus.....on the games that i dont like....the short but fun games and the worry that sony and microsoft will jump on the bandwagon

Never really classed my self as a hardcore gamer as such.....what nintendo need is the gaming equivalent of pixar.....that the games appeal to everyone....but there is something for the adults (hardcore ) to

[Wools]

Is it though? Film and music fans don't seem to have the same fickle nature as we do. It seems unique to gamers.

Not true, read the pages of Sight & Sound or listen to the discussion in News Night Review and you'll get the same preposterous, demanding attacks and people looking for something other than the obvious...

Enjoyment of their own passtime.

[Brats]

Not true, read the pages of Sight & Sound or listen to the discussion in News Night Review and you'll get the same preposterous, demanding attacks and people looking for something other than the obvious...

Enjoyment of their own passtime.

I watch Newsnight Review every week (as I love a bunch of intellectuals converse over something like Die Hard).

But it's nothing like game forums. There's lively debate, not assumption and overreaction .

[saif]

Erm...Newsnight Rebview - enjoyable as it is, can hardly be compared to "normal" people on a forum.
To be honest, the internet is a terrible barometer of opinion in so many cases as everyone is a little more extreme in the invective and it seemed to be mainly peopled by American teenagers (either physically so or mentally).

To be honest, I would imagine that gamers here are, in the main, experienced gamers and one of the things that has kept me involved is the pace of development. That is why expectations are there, filmgoers do not think that films will just get better and better but gamers do. Not many believe that development of the medium will stop or slow down. On a related point, I think that some of the wii negativity from gamers is that *they* feel it is the abandonment of progress for the quick bit of cash now. I know I do with the very simplistic ideas (put mainly by non-nintendo to be fair).