Next Gen Im going Retro

[QualityChimp]

My mate drove his VW Beetle to a car boot sale and sold his engine...

"Trunk" makes most sense, because an elephant's trunk is at the front!

[speedlolita]

I do, yers.

I think it's still called a trunk, though I still say boot. It makes me laugh when people go to the back and then say "Oh".

And they're met with an engine aha.

[Sketcz]

Ace. That car would be great for kidnapping. "Fancy a look at the engine, it's a beast!" So you walk round, pop it open, and "There's nothing here...?"

Too late! You're hit over the head and bundled into the front of Daryl's car, for transport to his secret dungeon.

[J0e Musashi]

I could possibly amass a collection of midgets, or maybe Paula Abdul. Nowt else will fit in there.

[Charlie]

I guess the only thing I would ask in response to that is why we tend to single out games in that sense, when they surely have just as much 'importance' as other forms of media. Regardless of the form of the media, the level of importance is down to the perception of the receiver.

I'm not singling out games, well, no, I am in this instance but only because we're on a games forum and we're talking about games, but I'd throw in movies and a thousand other things into the same box labelled 'Important?'.

I don't wanna engage in a so-called arts war, but if music vanished tomorrow the world would be a worse place. Whether you're an intellectual academic in Oxford, a tribesman in the Kalahari desert, a hippy in San Francisco, a stock broker in New York, a Zen Buddhist in Tibet, a Christian, a Muslim, rich or poor, the chances are you love music and use music to extract infinite joy. There's something instinctive about music, as if it's writ in our very flesh itself. My own theory is it's due to the familiar thud-thud of our mother's heartbeat as we develop in the womb, but regardless as to the reason, it's an inescapable fact that music has always been part of human culture, it's shaped us as a species, and, after silence, comes closest to expressing the inexpressible. It's irreplaceable and therefore important.

But I suppose, as Socrates argued some 2500 years ago, if we are to ever to truly ascertain what is and isn't important, we first have to examine the word itself and try to understand it's meaning, but we all interpret the word differently, hence disagreements.

[nakamura]

I could possibly amass a collection of midgets, or maybe Paula Abdul. Nowt else will fit in there.

Are we talking about the trunk or the car in general? I mean, that is one flat looking Porsche.

[egparadigm]

I personally would sooner do without music than video games. In fact I think the order of the media apocalypse should be thus:

1. Literature
2. Music
3. Film
4. Video Games.

[Sketcz]

Is experimental theatre at no. 5?

[Golgo]

I'm not singling out games, well, no, I am in this instance but only because we're on a games forum and we're talking about games, but I'd throw in movies and a thousand other things into the same box labelled 'Important?'.

I don't wanna engage in a so-called arts war, but if music vanished tomorrow the world would be a worse place. Whether you're an intellectual academic in Oxford, a tribesman in the Kalahari desert, a hippy in San Francisco, a stock broker in New York, a Zen Buddhist in Tibet, a Christian, a Muslim, rich or poor, the chances are you love music and use music to extract infinite joy. There's something instinctive about music, as if it's writ in our very flesh itself. My own theory is it's due to the familiar thud-thud of our mother's heartbeat as we develop in the womb, but regardless as to the reason, it's an inescapable fact that music has always been part of human culture, it's shaped us as a species, and, after silence, comes closest to expressing the inexpressible. It's irreplaceable and therefore important.

But I suppose, as Socrates argued some 2500 years ago, if we are to ever to truly ascertain what is and isn't important, we first have to examine the word itself and try to understand it's meaning, but we all interpret the word differently, hence disagreements.

Interesting points about music and the possibly fundamental need for rhythm/music.

But if you're talking about needs and loves of the species - and infants - you might indeed say the same for storytelling. And play. Children crave play and stories and songs. Can you get rid of any of these as less important? The art forms that descend from these needs are all of equal value.

What would the world be like it 'play' disappeared tomorrow?

[Charlie]

@ Mono: You'd scrap literature first? Wow. I can't think of any one I know who isn't mentally richer because of books. Do you believe the sharing of ideas and information should be the preserve of the developed world only, and those in the third world with no radio, TV, internet or electricity should be condemned to ignorance?

[Charlie]

Interesting points about music and the possibly fundamental need for rhythm/music.

But if you're talking about needs and loves of the species - and infants - you might indeed say the same for storytelling. And play. Children crave play and stories and songs. Can you get rid of any of these as less important? The art forms that descend from these needs are all of equal value.

What would the world be like it 'play' disappeared tomorrow?

I think storytelling is hugely important, and the same goes for play. But videogames are but a form of play, there are many ways to play, mountain biking, football, chess, and so on and so forth, hence my statement if videogames vanished I'd soon replace them. I don't want anyone to think I'm against games, I'm not, I love games to a certain degree. But are they important? I'm not so sure. I certainly remeber being happy before videogames appeared in my life.

[Dogg Thang]

That's old man speak. We didn't need them back in my day. Most of the stuff in our lives we don't actually need. We are capable of being happy with next to nothing. That doesn't mean that anything that falls outside of those basic needs isn't important.

Are games important? Yes. Why? For the same reason almost anything else becomes important - we decide it is so.

[Charlie]

That's old man speak. We didn't need them back in my day.

I'm only 37. As a matter of preserving my ego, I'm telling myself you read it as old man speak, as opposed to my writing it as old man speak.

[Asura]

I'm not singling out games, well, no, I am in this instance but only because we're on a games forum and we're talking about games, but I'd throw in movies and a thousand other things into the same box labelled 'Important?'.

I don't wanna engage in a so-called arts war, but if music vanished tomorrow the world would be a worse place. Whether you're an intellectual academic in Oxford, a tribesman in the Kalahari desert, a hippy in San Francisco, a stock broker in New York, a Zen Buddhist in Tibet, a Christian, a Muslim, rich or poor, the chances are you love music and use music to extract infinite joy. There's something instinctive about music, as if it's writ in our very flesh itself. My own theory is it's due to the familiar thud-thud of our mother's heartbeat as we develop in the womb, but regardless as to the reason, it's an inescapable fact that music has always been part of human culture, it's shaped us as a species, and, after silence, comes closest to expressing the inexpressible. It's irreplaceable and therefore important.

But I suppose, as Socrates argued some 2500 years ago, if we are to ever to truly ascertain what is and isn't important, we first have to examine the word itself and try to understand it's meaning, but we all interpret the word differently, hence disagreements.

Gaming, as a concept, has existed for longer. Animals play. Given, they don't play ordered games with rules and winning conditions, but they play nonetheless. The chief difference is that a Cheetah doesn't pick up a rock and say "this one's a knight" and another saying "this one's a cavalier" - they lack abstraction.

There's a Sumerian text describing a conversation between three wise men, one who considers that good games are games of chance (a fatalist) one who insists good games are games of skill (a determinist) and one who believes truly great games balance both. That's some of the oldest of human writings.

We play games for all sorts of reasons but they're fundamentally linked to how we learn and understand the world around us. Mothers play "peek-a-boo" with their babies, teaching them about rhythm and pacing in conversation. Children play playground games to lean all sorts - and sports teaches kids to work as a team or triumph over adversity. On a grander sense we compete with each other every day in the great game of evolution and genetics.

Given, electronic games are a strange extension of the concept - but they're a way of granting people an interactive experience that otherwise they just couldn't have.

Academics in Oxford will routinely test their intellect with a game of Chess. The Tribesmen in the Kalahari doubtless will compete at tasks of a physical nature, perhaps even helping to establish their place in their Tribe. The hippy in San Francisco probably plays Ultimate Frisbee, a game that espouses equality and fair play as its very soul. Zen monks have been known to play Go, a game which teaches you about yourself and your opponent with its exceptional simplicity.

Without gaming, mankind is lost. We can't hunt, we can't fight, we can't learn. I'd argue that it's every bit as core to the human condition as music.

[Golgo]

^ I love Asura's post. Dismissing videogames as trivial is just dismissing the latest manifestation of something primal.