Gender Inequality in Vid Games industry

[Asura]

Unless you're Superman. Or his Ms. Male counterpart, Supergirl.

[noobish hat]

What, is there no hat on this boat we can put names into? THERE'S NO HAT, WE'RE ALL GOING TO DROWN AND FREEZE TO DEATH!

[randombs]

What's wrong with a bonnet, you sexist pig?

[Lyris]

Bear in mind that feminism, though the name might suggest otherwise, is about gender equality.

The trouble with that argument is that it's a naive 1970s view of "equality" that is blind to male-specific problems. I don't see any evidence that feminism cares about male-specific issues to anything like the same extent it cares about female-specific ones (the clue is in the name!), despite enjoying the benefits of being labeled as an equality-driven movement.

[Dogg Thang]

You to campaigners for black equality: what about the white people?! And to campaigners for gay rights: what about the straight people?! And yes, that's exactly the same as your: what about the menz?! I wonder how much time Martin Luther King spent making speeches on making stuff even more awesome for the white guys? It's not the job of the underrepresented to worry about the dominant groups. Are you a straight white man, Lyris? Then you are in a privileged position and it sounds utterly ridiculous that your answer to anything on female equality actually is "what about the menz?!"

[Lyris]

I don't think that's a like for like comparison. Men and women both had (have) different privileges and responsibilities in society. Some things were better for one group than for the other. I don't think it was unreasonable at all of feminists to push for equal opportunities for women, either, but that situation is in stark contrast to black people and gay people, who had/have a much rawer deal. (Do you think that a 1950s housewife faced the same problems as a black man, or woman, in the 1950s?)

I think there would be very, very few areas where black people or gay people got anything other than a rawer deal.

I do agree, I am in a very privileged position - in some areas. In others, considerably less so. I am sure that there are times where me being male will grant me automatic respect which would be much harder for women to achieve. There are other times where this will work to my detriment.

Contrary to what you suggested earlier, I don't think that either of us disagree that equal opportunities should be the goal. Neither of us hates women, or hates men. What I think we do disagree on is the effectiveness of feminism in dealing with these problems.

[Dogg Thang]

As has been stated many times over, feminism IS striving for equality. By definition it is the ONLY way of dealing with these problems. You state that equal opportunities should be the goal and I am so reassured to read that. I genuinely hope I'm reading you all wrong and that I'm the one misinterpreting it all here because I know you're a good guy. And yet seem entirely anti-feminist and so, in my mind (and by definition), anti-equality and meet any point with the same cry of, well, you know. And I think my earlier analogies fit just fine in spite of any situational differences (one massive difference being that women aren't actually a minority in our society and get equated with minorities - that in itself speaks volumes).

But if we are honestly both striving for real equality and really mean that deep down, then fantastic. I'd love that to be the case.

[Guts]

No one here is against women being treated better in society or telling them to get back to the kitchen.

It's just that people like Anita Sarkeesian, who lie and manipulate to further their agenda (and make piles of money for themselves while they're at it) don't help the cause in everyone's opinion.

And again, people doing death threats are morons who should be found and punished.

[Dogg Thang]

No one here is against women being treated better in society...

It's just that people like Anita Sarkeesian, who lie and manipulate to further their agenda.

The agenda being to have women treated better in society. And this I feel again indicative of the problem. You might well say to yourself you want equality (more convinced with Lyris though as I think you've missed almost every point raised) and yet every fibre of your being is rejecting it. And you're not alone or an exception or anything - there are many others. And again drawing those earlier comparisons, it's not far of the "I'm not racist but..." thing. Sometimes people don't mean it negatively or maliciously and would love to believe they want equality. But they don't.

Totally agree with your last sentence though.

[Brad]

I always treat women as though they were my equal.

Sorry, couldn't resist the chance to use that Richard Herring line.

Nice that this heated discussion hasn't become the disaster that it would have at many other places.

[Lyris]

Nice that this heated discussion hasn't become the disaster that it would have at many other places.

Agreed!

[Dogg Thang]

It would be redundant to go into why Anita Sarkeesian hasn't covered those issues in her coverage of portrayal of women in video games but really this all really comes back to the "what about the..." thing yet again and I reckon we've probably both well covered that one.

[Profit]

I think these videos are very good. They have highlighted the issue important to many/some women which a male dominated industry would never acknowledge. They are designed to trigger a response so some people will get irate.

For example many western gamers find disgust with certain moe games from Japan, so I can imagine more moderate people would find disgust at the portrail of women in mainstream games.

Edit: also credit to the maker for managing to get funding for these videos. The bottom line is that if someone thinks they have an alternative/better point of view, they should come up with their own videos which gains as much attention or people willing to put money towards.

[Tobal]

Just to contain all it in one place from the on going fall out of branding all the gamers as anti-feminist and now "gamers/nerds/geeks are dead" in a new campaign last weekend by the big online games sites in response to the internet finding out just how shady the indie dev scene and gaming press have gotten in perusing 3rd-wave feminist ideology.

[importaku]

Wow colour me unsuprised that the game journalism industry is just as corrupt & messed up as the rest of the media branches out there. It's just rife with narcissists, divas and gaming luvvies that suck upto everyone.

Just how many quality gaming news sites are out there? virtually none is the answer, they all recycle the same crap & constant clickbait articles. Very few are worth my time reading through, all the main ones are pure garbage.