Gender Inequality in Vid Games industry

[Dogg Thang]

Good question. Someone elsewhere did point me to sport as an area that also attracts rage and negativity. I don't know enough about sport to know, to be honest. It could well be true. But years ago I came across a white spremicist board googling for a thing and I remember being stunned at it existing but even more stunned by the amount of traffic it seemed to have. I probably mentioned it here at the time. It's quite honestly the only place on the Internet that I've seen such nasty comments like some of the ones I've seen over the last few days. But like you I don't go to enough boards to know for certain if this is unique to gaming.

Still, one thing it makes me really thankful for is that this place is a peaceful oasis in all that. You guys all rock even when we don't agree.

[Lyris]

I think it's probably because there is not a culture of murdering men without a second thought, but there is a culture of objectifying women. That's probably the difference they have in mind.

You don't seriously think that murdering men and leering at women are crimes of equal severity, surely?

The trouble is that most men have a built-in "benevolent sexism" that means they (and I use "they" rather than "we" purposefully there) give women a free pass in areas where men wouldn't be given the time of day. Men are willing to entertain women's victimhood even if it's questionable in fact.

[Guts]

I just watched a video where Ms. Sarkeesian is complaining about the unnecessary "gender signifiers" in video games (like lipstick, jewelry and bow ties on Ms. Pac-Man and other female characters), WHILE wearing heavy black eyeliner, painted eyebrows, huge earrings and foundation. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

[Dogg Thang]

Cry. You completely missed the point and I guess it's such an easy one to miss if you don't want to see it. That one comes down to the men=default or normal thing and women=different. Male Pac-Man is normal, blank, default. Female is that with make-up and a bow. Extra. Yes, women wear make-up as she did in her video but men have stubble or facial hair or wear trousers or pee standing up, none of which is reflected in Pac-Man. He's just generic, normal and that equals male. Women are kind of like normal but different. It's a bit like the misjudged AC animation comment a while back that it would cost more to animate women. We made humans and now you want women? It sidelines women and, again, this is one that goes far beyond games and has existed for a long time. But yet again the fact that you're having such a hard time seeing it is so indicative of how deep the problem goes.

But if you do ever start to see it, you'll understand and you'll see it everywhere.

[Lyris]

I don't normally quote myself, but...

The trouble is that most men have a built-in "benevolent sexism" that means they (and I use "they" rather than "we" purposefully there) give women a free pass in areas where men wouldn't be given the time of day. Men are willing to entertain women's victimhood even if it's questionable in fact.

...And a case in point is to look at the joke that is the gaming press' reporting of this issue, and Anita Sarkeesian's Twitter followers (Joss Whedon, etc). The constant message is "It's awful that women are being hurt in video games".

Not one mention of the disposable man stereotype in games (or the disposable man problem in the real world, more importantly). Not a *single* frickin' peep from these people. There's feminist "equality" - sorry, feminist tunnel vision, at work.

[Guts]

Cry. You completely missed the point and I guess it's such an easy one to miss if you don't want to see it.

Because it's okay for Ms. Sarkeesian to wear make-up, but not Ms. Pac-Man, why exactly?

(I also have to wonder why such a strong feminist feels the need to wear all these feminine "gender signifiers", when she's so clearly against any differentiating between the sexes. Maybe she's afraid someone might mistake her for a vile man-creature if she didn't?)

Anyway, who is the authority who decides which characters get to wear lipstick and bow ties? The video shows perfectly how she cherry picks the things that support her single-minded vision and completely ignores the things that doesn't like the numerous female characters without bow ties and huge red lips, like Samus Aran for example, one of the first and most important female characters in gaming.

[Lyris]

I think the point was that the "lady character" wasn't a ground-up female one but a man character given a sex change with some "look, I am a lady!" features thrown on. Which to me seems more like lazy character design more than anything sinister.

[Neon Ignition]

It certainly happens in many games, even ones with character creation tools it's usually just a single base figure that gets reskinned and resized to be a woman, then looks wrong when she runs manly. Ms Pacman was probably a weak example for her to use though which is more the trouble with that particular complaint given that Pacman (name aside) isn't masculine and wasn't created with the foresight of branching the family tree out or with the tech to go into clearer detail (hence his design). Given he's just a sphere Namco was somewhat limited in options. It's like complaining about the representation of children based off Pacman Jr's hat. But certainly, many real examples exist

[Dogg Thang]

Pacman (name aside) isn't masculine

This is part of the point. Guts completely doesn't get it, Lyris is coming closer. Pac-Man has absolutely no gender signifiers and yet is male. Why? Because in the absence of gender signifiers we take male as the default human being. Mickey Mouse is male. Minnie Mouse is him with a bow and a skirt. Same thing. Men do not need gender signifiers because we have come to be the default. Human=male. Female=something else. Pac-Man isn't a damning indictment of gaming on his own but he's being used to illustrate a common gender issue across almost all media that does also appear in gaming.

[bash]

I'm more bothered about bouncing boobs in beat em ups to be honest. That dead or Alive had the option for increasing/decreasing bounciness was cringe worthy beyond belief.

[nakamura]

It's just boring. Objectifying women in games is just dull. Every female character has her tits out for no reason.
Playing Dead Space 3, met that woman for the first time, sizable cleavage. It just feels childish.

Gaming needs to grow. Women should not be just eye candy. Tits (and torso), should be used in more appropriate situations.

I'm not against anything generally against any gender, but things are horribly cringeworthy most of the time.

[speedlolita]

I'm more bothered about bouncing boobs in beat em ups to be honest. That dead or Alive had the option for increasing/decreasing bounciness was cringe worthy beyond belief.

The menu option in DoA is "Bouncing breast" which you can toggle on and off.

On later DoA I believe the physics would adjust as you upped your profile age.

The world needs more characters like Kate Archer!

[Tobal]

I would like point out his gender is all in his name.. you know Pac-MAN. I understand what your saying about defaulting to male which I would do being a male, but surely that would depend on he user, if it was called pucpuc would a female think its female. Not that any of this matters, for all the charts and statistics pointing women are nearly 50% of all "gamers" we know this is bull**** skewed by freeware social media/phone games turning a profit for about 5 games of hundreds of thousands where less than 0.01% of the userbase(all genders) spends anything or they make it of the adverts, games get developed where the money is and that will always be in our life times for a male audience.

and the DoA complaint, surely thats pandering to your "triggers" if you can turn off jiggle, should the ask dev's if we can wrap them in a nice warm blanket and give them a cup of tea instead of fighting outside in a skimpy outfits with sweat-tech (which im surprised you didn't mention).

[nakamura]

On the other hand with DoA, none of the male characters are exactly ugly and several have topless outfits. Zack is borderline naked.

The should flex their pecs or something.

[nakamura]

Another thought, would love that woman to watch the Prodigy video, Smack My Bitch Up.