Nintendo WiiU : Thread 05

[danstan21]

I hate to play devil's advocate but if you guys all want a game like Starfox 64 and a proper contoller why don't you just buy Star Fox 64 and an N64? Saying Nintendo should just make the same games they were in 1998 with the pretty much the same controllers is a bit redundant surely? Nobody is taking those original games away?

I think the point is that SF64 is super fun, but many of us have played it to death so simply need more levels. The classic SF Arwing gameplay hasn't been exhausted to require a significant overhaul yet - the last time we got anything resembling it was 2005 (excluding SF643D), which even then was 7 years since SF64.

But let's say for the sake of argument you're right, and SF does need something extra to make it stand out, and that HD cinematic space graphics alone aren't enough to warrant the upgrade. There are still plenty of other (better) ways to innovate/improve Star Fox gameplay than an arbitrarily different control scheme:

1) Make the campaign longer, fleshed out and focus on creating an engaging story. Let us play as other characters. Give us something to fight for!
2) Take Assault's on-foot missions and make them good (S&P-style gameplay would be fantastic); keep Arwing gameplay as the primary focus, but intersperse the game with such levels in the same way Landmaster and Blue Marine spiced up SF64. Hell, if the number of missions is going up, why not add more vehicles like the walker from SF2?
3) Focus on multiplayer aspects to create Nintendo's definitive online shooter.
4) Add more endgame for long-time fans - create some real bullet hell levels. Basically, more levels like Area 6 in SF64.

I don't deny that these won't sound great to everyone but they are SURELY more appealing ways - that still suggest new and exciting experiences - that Nintendo could have chosen to promote the game with in interviews, rather than "it's all familiar but now you'll look at BOTH screens!", which signifies a bolt-on to otherwise unevolved gameplay.

[danstan21]

Now you're just being disingenuous and you know you are.

A dancemat game clearly needs a dancemat. There is no scope for it to have any other control method.

This is different. There are people out there who may well feel comfortable with using the Gamepad to play a game like Starfox. Fine, make it one control option beside many (Pro Controller, Wii Remote, etc.) for them to do so if they would like. Just don't force it on people who want a familiar Starfox experience that they know and love.

But to use MK8 as an example, if you have motion controls you have to give some other sort of advantage to make up for the fact your control scheme is less precise and takes longer to input. In MK8 you get automatic max handling on every vehicle. In SF, if both control methods are present, either the levels will be on the whole easier to accommodate motion players at the right difficulty, or they will have to implement two sets of difficulties, or some other balancing mechanism. It's kind of a catch twenty-two, since most players will be happiest with the option to play with a normal controller, but if your game plays equally well with a traditional controller as it does motion, then the chances are the motion control isn't justified as it adds nothing to gameplay that can't be done with a traditional controller.

[dataDave]

I think Star Fox 64 nailed the game, but I don't think the hardcore-ness of Starfox is really very Nintendo in 2015, not many developers would be prepared to hide away so much stuff for such a small portion of the gaming population to play.

This is most evident with the transition between Bayonetta to Bayonetta 2. It's as if Platinum had a game even deeper than the first and then Nintendo were afraid of another TW101 situation so got them to bring everything up to the surface level at the last minute.

What we end up with is something with only a couple of layers of depth instead of over twenty. Given the feedback it's quite clear that there must have been an insanely small number of people that played the first game at any depth.

[Asura]

There are people out there who may well feel comfortable with using the Gamepad to play a game like Starfox. Fine, make it one control option beside many (Pro Controller, Wii Remote, etc.) for them to do so if they would like. Just don't force it on people who want a familiar Starfox experience that they know and love.

You seem to have the impression that I want the game to have gamepad controls; I absolutely don't.

All I'm saying is that if it does have gamepad controls, they might offer joypad controls too but the game will be ludicrously easy on the pad to make up for the enormous handicap of motion controls, to the point where I anticipate Nintendo won't even offer joypad controls.

I never said I was happy about it.

[Guts]

Ah, premature bitching and moaning about a game that nobody knows jack **** about. Gotta love it.

Good post, Pikate.

[MrKirov]

EDIT- Can't be bothered to post about the irony - it's there for all to see without my assistance.

[chopemon]

I think I'm the only person hyped for Devil's Third. I love B grade third person Japanese action games. Can't wait for it.

[Baseley09]

Same here man infact I might actually buy it at full retail when it comes out, excite!

[Nu-Eclipse]

I think I'm the only person hyped for Devil's Third. I love B grade third person Japanese action games. Can't wait for it.

You're not. For all of his douche-ness, any game developed by someone as talented as Itagaki-san has to be worth a look.

[Pikate]

New SMB, Smash, MK etc are not super gimmicky. They are core games with core concepts. Just like N64 games.

I didn't say they were super gimmicky, I said they were super simple? Which they are (all can be played with a Wii-mote sideways) that would never work for something like Star Fox (assuming they go back to the style of the first 2) but you could really simplify that with the gamepad and I can see people who bought NSMBU/MK8 buying into that.

Nobody asked them to make the damn thing in the first place.

Perhaps not but the innovate control of the Wii was a success for them, when Wii U was in R&D you’ve got to remember the iPad and Tablets were a full blown craze and then the two screens on the DS/3DS was becoming a thing for Nintendo. I can see why they did it and personally I really like my gamepad, I’m not saying it’s any kind of revolution but the ability to play it as a handheld on the sofa while I have the news on or my boyfriend watches sports is great and I think party games (Nintendo Land, Wii Party U, Mario Party 10) use it really well, the implementation in Wind Waker HD and Pikmin 3 was very useful, even just having it for a map screen in MK8 is okay by me.

[capcom_suicide]

I find the use of the gamepad in Zelda WW to dramatically improve the game. I thought it would just be a gimmick, but aiming, map and item overview/selection are game changes. Exploring a dungeon and finding rooms you haven't explored makes the dungeon map far more useful when it's open all the time.

Playing StarFox when the cockpit controls and map are on a gamepad might be good!

[Neon Ignition]

I'd be happy for Starfox to just expand its scope. They've tried so many bolted on aspects and every time it's failed, ii'd be interested to see what Nintendo would do if they made the Lylat System effectively an open world with Fox and co taking on missions from Command, exploring locations, etc essentially expanding on the core gameplay rather than trying to mix genres. Trouble is it would probably involve a budget they don't want to put into the franchise at this point.

[fishbowlhead]

I'd be happy for Starfox to just expand its scope. They've tried so many bolted on aspects and every time it's failed, ii'd be interested to see what Nintendo would do if they made the Lylat System effectively an open world with Fox and co taking on missions from Command, exploring locations, etc essentially expanding on the core gameplay rather than trying to mix genres. Trouble is it would probably involve a budget they don't want to put into the franchise at this point.

Cough, starfox adventures, cough, poor reactions, cough.

But in all seriousness, i hope it just turns out to be a super solid overall game ala mario kart 8. Get the core gamers excited about what made them love the series in the first place, gameplay!. We will all find out come e3, hopefully see a more fleshed out zelda landscape too.

[Neon Ignition]

Oh definitely with no on foot sections. The trouble with SFAdv was that it was 95% weak Zelda. I'd keep it purely ship based, kind of like a Starfox arcade action version of a smaller Elite game

[fishbowlhead]

Oh definitely with no on foot sections. The trouble with SFAdv was that it was 95% weak Zelda. I'd keep it purely ship based, kind of like a Starfox arcade action version of a smaller Elite game

If nintendo did the gameplay, graphics & controls while braben and co fleshed out the universe and trading etc, well id never bother going to work again, so i hope they dont