Nintendo Switch: Thread 09

[Asura]

I put literally hundreds if not thousands of hours into the Wii version in local multiplayer. Not the best entry, and with truly terrible graphics, but it'll always be a fave for me. We always used the nunchucks though, not the waggle business (even though I know it's possible to get really good using it).

I wasn't a fan of the DS and Wii games. I disliked the way some of the weapons caused you to lose your weapon (e.g. a blue-shell causes you to lose the weapon you're carrying). It meant when you had a weapon, you had to use it really quickly as you were likely to lose it if you didn't. 7, however, was a real return to form (honestly 8 and 8 Deluxe built upon that as a basis).

But I'm weird with MarioKart as 64 is my favourite, despite how you can argue dispassionately that it's the worst. I had that during my childhood and played so much of it with my family, some of whom are no longer with us. That one goes beyond objective quality of the game itself.

[wakka]

Yeah, they were generally weaker entries. 7 and 8 are better. 7 is one of those games where I feel like it's basically just invalidated by the refinements of its successor though. 8 is effectively 7 part II, and there's no real reason to play 7 nowadays. On the whole I would say Super Circuit and 8 are the strongest entries.

I wasn't a fan of the DS and Wii games. I disliked the way some of the weapons caused you to lose your weapon (e.g. a blue-shell causes you to lose the weapon you're carrying). It meant when you had a weapon, you had to use it really quickly as you were likely to lose it if you didn't.

With this specific mechanical point, I would say that in general with today's MK you still need to 'use it or lose it' with weapons, and that's a good thing. Even in 7 and 8, a hit from Lightning will cause you to lose your weapon, and in 8 if a weapon is being actively held behind your kart you are liable to lose it if you are hit by something (e.g. a Blue Shell, or a red or green which happens to hit you at an angle which means you are not protected, or a banana, or a bomb).

The reason I like that they force you to do that is because it makes it more interesting, and it keeps the pace up. It's boring to simply hold the same weapon constantly. In 8, for instance, the best tactic when holding first is to constantly cycle your weapons so that you're continually leaving traps. Except, that is, if you get a Super Horn. That's worth hanging onto up until the point you need to use it to defend yourself from something. Anything else, use it and get another.

However - the Blue Shell was OP in Wii. The only way to avoid a direct hit was to use a Mushroom at the correct moment. However, Mushrooms aren't dropped when you're in first. This meant the likelihood of you being in first with one was low, and meant that it could be better tactically to stop and let second place catch up with you so that they'll be caught in the blast. That's not great.

It also flew over the heads of everyone so it didn't bash other players in the pack, simply homed straight in on first, which I think is less interesting.

One weapon I do miss from Wii is the fake item box. Loved leaving those nestled among the real ones

[Nu-Eclipse]

[MENTION=5490]wakka[/MENTION] [MENTION=5941]Asura[/MENTION] my mistake for misreading the original story. Apologies.

[Nu-Eclipse]

I wasn't a fan of the DS and Wii games.

My relationship with the Touch! Generations MK games is a funny one.

I played A LOT of MKDS back in the day, local multiplayer to boot. Enjoyed it immensely even though it was clear that the snaking mechanic for infinite boosting pretty much broke the game.

MKWii for me was a disappointment. Not quite as bad as Double Dash but near. It just felt overly polished and glossy in how it looked and played, especially after coming from a lot of MKDS.

[Asura]

I played A LOT of MKDS back in the day, local multiplayer to boot.

I should say, I know what I've said above but I did play tons of it. I think everyone did. The single-car multiplayer (for this and Bomberman DS) really helped.

[Nu-Eclipse]

7 and 8 are better. 7 is one of those games where I feel like it's basically just invalidated by the refinements of its successor though. 8 is effectively 7 part II, and there's no real reason to play 7 nowadays. On the whole I would say Super Circuit and 8 are the strongest entries.

Agree with some of this to an extent.

7 is basically a Beta version of 8. Slick and polished. Three-starring it was a pain in the arse though, and I hate the way that a lot of the classic tracks were nerfed (often by way of making them way too big) in terms of the driving skill they required just to make them more accessible (SNES Rainbow Road, I'm looking at you!).

Super Circuit/MK Advance is underrated IMO. A very well-executed hybrid of the best bits of SMK and MK64.

Personally, SMK & Super Circuit do me just nicely. I can take/leave the rest of the franchise after that. MK8 is clearly the franchise's most successful (especially when Nintendo insist on reheating it!) but for me the skill required in earlier MK games (yes, namely SMK) was totally jettisoned for (admittedly excellent) accessibility and I just can't get with it because of that.

[Nu-Eclipse]

The single-car multiplayer (for this and Bomberman DS) really helped.

Absolutely, and Hudson Soft knew it - they repackaged the same multiplayer Battle Pack in all of their DS Bomberman games.

All the more damning that Konami appear to have destroyed the formula with Bomberman R on the Switch. A dreadful game.

[Asura]

All the more damning that Konami appear to have destroyed the formula with Bomberman R on the Switch. A dreadful game.

Yep, was so happy I decided to spring to physical on that one. Meant I could offload it after I found it out terrible it was.

Bomberman should never be 3D, at least, not unless you're trying to do one of those games in the series which is more than just the usual formula (like has a story, platforming etc.). The gameplay is 2D. It should be in 2D.

[Asura]

Super Circuit/MK Advance is underrated IMO. A very well-executed hybrid of the best bits of SMK and MK64.

Yeah, I agree that Super Circut is a fantastic game. I still fire that up quite frequently.

[wakka]

Pretty much every game onwards from SMK has an element of randomness and luck, which I actually like. It's that blend of luck and skill that makes it so addictive for me. You've always got the chance of that eleventh hour Hail Mary stroke of luck. Equally you've got the chance of being screwed over though!

Agreed that Super Circuit doesn't get talked about enough. It's a superb game and quite a unique one in the canon, still well worth revisiting today. In fact it'll probably be one of the first things I get into on my Analogue Pocket, if I ever manage to get one.

[Neon Ignition]

Well deserved for MK8, MKWii has always been one of the weakest entries ballooned because of the popularity of the system it was on. So much to dislike in that entry even if a weak Mario Kart is still a solid game

[Nu-Eclipse]

Pretty much every game onwards from SMK has an element of randomness and luck, which I actually like. It's that blend of luck and skill that makes it so addictive for me. You've always got the chance of that eleventh hour Hail Mary stroke of luck. Equally you've got the chance of being screwed over though!

I'd argue that MKWii is where the rot truly began to set in for MK regarding tipping the balance towards luck over driving skill, although you could make the argument for that actually starting in MK64 - the first MK game that had so many flaws (blatant AI rubber-banding, glitches and exploits for shortcuts, etc.).

I never had a problem with there being a Skill-to-Luck balance in MK games. Skill should be the priority though. It's a racing game, ffs! The balance has unquestionably been skewed too far towards luck in later MK games.

Honestly, playing MK8 might as well be like playing Mario Party IMO, it's that bad.

[wakka]

Nah, I don't agree it's unquestionable. I'm questioning it! It's subjective. Personally I think the balance is a good one, but that's me.

Weapons strategy is a core part of the fun of MK. Since weapons are distributed according to chance (within strict limits based on position) there will always be that element of luck.

You can always play time trial!

[Asura]

I never had a problem with there being a Skill-to-Luck balance in MK games. Skill should be the priority though. It's a racing game, ffs! The balance has unquestionably been skewed too far towards luck in later MK games.

Nintendo franchises do yo-yo with this, at times.

It's like Mario Party. I struggle to remember which one it was - I think it was the 3DS one, Island Tour - where the game was so transparently odds-driven it was insane.

The weird thing is that it's Mario Party, not Go. I don't expect it to be an uncompromising game of raw skill. That whole franchise exists so a group of people can play it and the person who isn't necessarily "the best at videogames" of the group can still be the winner, and that's fine... But so many of the minigames were just "stand on one of these 4 lily-pads. Oh, you picked pad 3, sorry, you're out" and so on. Basically just fancy visuals to disguise that the game was "everyone roll a dice, person with the highest number wins".

I'm generally fine with games that are a mixture of deterministic and fatalistic, but they can at least try to disguise it

[Nu-Eclipse]

Weapons strategy is a core part of the fun of MK. Since weapons are distributed according to chance (within strict limits based on position) there will always be that element of luck.

Sorry, that just wasn't the case in SMK. It was not.

Weapons were obviously part of SMK but driving skill was decisive above that. Driving ability was the main determinant in SMK, and that definitely is unquestionable. Go play it again and see for yourself.

That just isn't the case in later MK games IMO.