Lets put the argument to rest! What is the rarest PAL Megadrive game ever??

[Tirian]

Euro Kizuna (there are no PAL Neo carts) is in a totally different ball park to Stadium Events.

Why? Because it's rarer? I'm not talking about comparative rarities here - there's no question that Euro Kizuna is rarer. I'm talking about the fine lines that can be drawn when determining what makes a game 'rare'. So, if the game region doesn't matter to you, Kizuna Encounter is not a particularly rare game.

Stadium Events / Track and Field is similar (no, I am not saying 'the same' .. just similar). The lines that are drawn are fairly arbitrary. Is Stadium Events actually a different game than Track and Field? Not in any way that relates to the actual playing of it. Just like a first edition book does not read any differently than the 16th printing; or perhaps a better example would be "Northern Lights" and "The Golden Compass" (UK and US titles for the same book). Does the book read any differently? No - so if you were buying the book just to read the series, it wouldn't make any difference which title/imprint you bought.

Nor does 'rare' necessarily correlate with 'desirable' or 'valuable'. If I handwrote a copy of the Divine Comedy right now, it would be extremely rare variant of the book - one of a kind, in fact. However you wouldn't find many book collectors looking for it, nor would anyone be likely to pay me more than a quid or so for it. Nor would it be grounds for saying that the Divine Comedy is one of the rarest books in existence. I think what James is arguing above is somewhat similar - a Portuguese cover variant for a Megadrive game might well be very rare, but unless you draw some very arbitrary lines then it's hard to say that you can count this variation as making it one of the "rarest PAL Megadrive games".

[J0e Musashi]

There are thought to be only 4 known copies of Euro Kizuna Encounter in the entire world. That alone makes it a different ball park as even if you had the $10k+ it commands, you wouldn't neccesarily be able to buy it. Upon it's release I know that there were at least 12 copies, but 8 of these were apparently shipped back to Japan and relabelled as JPN versions. It's not similar to Stadium Events either. The Japanese version is still called Kizuna Encounter, it isn't just a cover variant. If you thought that way then the entire US and Euro AES line-up should be considered cover variants.

[Tirian]

There are thought to be only 4 known copies of Euro Kizuna Encounter in the entire world. That alone makes it a different ball park as even if you had the $10k+ it commands, you wouldn't neccesarily be able to buy it. Upon it's release I know that there were at least 12 copies, but 8 of these were apparently shipped back to Japan and relabelled as JPN versions. It's not similar to Stadium Events either. The Japanese version is still called Kizuna Encounter, it isn't just a cover variant. If you thought that way then the entire US and Euro AES line-up should be considered cover variants.

This is exactly my point - it depends on what you count as a 'variant'. I know people who collect 32X who are quite happy to have a 'complete' collection with NTSC versions of T-Mek and Primal Rage rather than the insanely rare PAL versions. Sure, you might find that inadequate for your purposes ... but, newsflash - not everyone thinks exactly the same as you! (or me ..)

Once again, thanks for your deep insight into the numbers of Euro Kizuna Encounter carts ... but that really wasn't in the least what I was talking about. I picked it simply because it is a clear instance where a game where there are different versions that only differ in peripheral matters to the actual game itself, and where one 'version' is considerably rarer than the others. In that respect it is not "in a different ball park", it is in exactly the same "ball park", for instance, as T-Mek or Primal Rage on the 32x.

So, for the last time ... I am NOT talking about the relative rarity of Kizuna Encounter to other games. I am NOT suggesting other games are as rare as it. I AM suggesting that the physical factors that allow you to distinguish Euro Kizuna Encounter from other versions are fairly modest - and inconsequential to the game itself - and in this way it is comparable to a number of other games. Geddit??

[J0e Musashi]

Right, so Stadium Events is a cover variant of Track and Field. That makes Kizuna Encounter a cover variant of Kizuna Encounter. Totally different, and non-comparible as Kizuna Encounter is not a variant (IMO) like Stadium Events is.
You can't just suddenly bring T-Mek and Primal Rage into it either.

Also if I were a collector of AES (which is a stupid thing nowadays IMO, when MVS is widely available and there are a greater number of games to be had), I'd only go for JPN games as you cannot get an English version of KOF2000. Imagine the spinage on a shelf being totally ruined by one game.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter as like you say everybody thinks differently about it.

[Tirian]

Right, so Stadium Events is a cover variant of Track and Field. That makes Kizuna Encounter a cover variant of Kizuna Encounter. Totally different, and non-comparible as Kizuna Encounter is not a variant (IMO) like Stadium Events is.

Actually I said "not much more than a cover variant". A minor, but significant difference. The Stadium Events/Track and Field differences go slightly beyond packaging, but not so far as to have any impact on the actual play of the game. The point I am making is that all of these examples are essentially the same game with some very minor cosmetic differences in some incarnations. So yes, they are all comparable in that respect.

You can't just suddenly bring T-Mek and Primal Rage into it either.

Um, why not? They illustrate my point perfectly.

Finally, back on the topic of rarest PAL MD games, what about Ozi releases? If you count Portuguese cover variants then you should probably also count Ozi releases, which are a relatively unexplored field. E.g. Silver cart releases / Platinum/Gold versions of various games, the Double Packs etc. And then there are the special edition box sets ... I've only ever seen one Primal Rage Special Edition box set. There's also an Ecco box set, a Phantom 2040 box set and a Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego Box set too.

[samanosuke]

I'd only go for JPN games as you cannot get an English version of KOF2000.

You bloody well can, and it's a damn sight cheaper than an English version of Kizuna Encounter.

Also, to add fuel to the fire, aren't all AES regions simply label variants? I mean, the carts themselves are exactly the same internally.

[J0e Musashi]

The English KOF2000 is not officially recognised as SNK. It was released by NeoFreak. You can find out more about this with a quick Google search.

Indeed they are Noel. Hence me posting in the first place.

[samanosuke]

I did a quick Google, and look what it came up with:

Since then, SNK officers confirmed a USA version of KOF 2000 was indeed produced in a limited production run. - http://www.ncsx.com/www/ncs010101/ncs0101.htm

Hey Dazza, is this Starkey guy the bloke who used to run CEX in Soho? If so, I know this guy too. We should all meet up for session. Got some nice Thai at the moment, if that still rocks your boat...

[J0e Musashi]

Yer, that be him Noel. I've no way of contacting him if he has moved again, so maybe you could get his number for me?

Oh right, I thought you meant curry. Lol. Yer, I'd be up for it. PM me or sommat like.

[NickRE2000]

Stadium Events was re-realeased by Nintendo as "World Class Track Meet" its a totally different game to Track and Field

It was originally released by Bandai to go with there Family Fun Fitness Power Pad acessory along with one other title (Athletic World). Nintendo purchased the rights to this, recalled all the Bandai stock, and re-released the Power Pad as their own accessory, with Athletic World and Stadium Events was re-named as World Class Track Meet

Due to the fact it was only sold in limited numbers for a short space of time, makes it probably the rarest licensed NTSC NES title

[Tirian]

Stadium Events was re-realeased by Nintendo as "World Class Track Meet" its a totally different game to Track and Field

My mistake, I knew it was re-released as something else but got the title wrong (I'm not a Nintendo expert). My original point remains the same though, just sub "World Class Track Meet" wherever I have erroneously stated "Track & Field".

[J0e Musashi]

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[Tirian]

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[J0e Musashi]

[t-bone-retro]

Is Smurfs: Travel The World a rare megadrive title?

I only see the master system version mentioned....