Seen any good Kung-Fu flicks of late?

[rmoxon]

Fair enough, but it's all subjective therefore to say the 'best ever' really means the best for you. To me, I have seen Jackie fight better and without wires. I also watch films to see all the actors who can fight take part in the action. I mean, do you watch a film and just look at the star, or the cast as a whole, regardless of the star who you're a fan of? Again, personal opinions are involved. To me, DM2 is a good film, great in parts even, but nowhere near the best the genre offers, as a whole.

Yes it's an opinion, just like everything else as wrote on a forum about what they think of a film. I was simply stating what I thought.

Also I don't particularly watch films for certain reasons other than to be entertained. Wether or not the supporting cast matters depends on what the film is. when I watch a Jackie Chan film I know it will most likley be a vehicle for him, even if there are othe martial artists in it it is garunteed that he get more focus if only becuase he's the biggest box office draw. The thing is that Drunken Master 2 may well "waste" certain actors, just like many films do, but it hardly matters, becuase chan is perfectly capable of carrying a film all on his own, so there's nothing wrong with the fact that he does the majority of the fighting. It's very much his film, its centred around his brand of comedy and fight scenes and he is the only major protagonist in the film.

So to replace any of those typical Jackie Chan moments with other actors fighting would probabaly have a negative impact upon the film. He's an actor who was of course inspired by silent film stars like buster Keaton, people who were very much one man shows. That has always been his essence really, in fact even when he's not the only main character and playing off other people he is usually the one creating the spectacle and what people are enjoying in the film the most. It does not really matter if the film is even a martial arts film, if you remove the only protagonist from the action it actually detracts from the story as they are basically what the film is about, but it's certainly even more true of films within this genre.

A recent example would probabaly be The Raid, a film that goes out of its way during the opening scene to show us who the main character is yet them has him disapear offscreen when one of its best fight scenes happens and the result is somthing that feels more forced and disconnected than it perhapse should simply becuase up until that point the film has flowed around the main character. There is of course a reason for why the story breaks away from the main guy, but that does not make it feel any less wrong when it does.

Had Drunken Master 2 been attempting to be an ensemble piece then focusing on other fighters would have been acceptable, but the film simply isnt focused on anyone else but the titular character, so trying to shoe horn other people fighting in would disrupt the flow of the film.

[monel]

Sorry, couldn't log in earlier:

1. You made definitive statements, with superlatives, eg 'the greatest', etc etc. These weren't presented as opinions, so I pointed out we all are expressing our opinions, which differ and some can be wrong.

2. DM2 isn't a wire fu film.

3. Jackie Chan can carry a film, but contrary to your assertions, all films are a group production- we aren't watching a one man broadway stage show, Mike Tyson's doing one now actually.

4. DM2 is overrated because JC hadn't done anything like it for years preceding it. Also, it's hard to find status in the UK during the 90s meant it got placed on a lot of 'best ever' lists.

5. JC booting / pushing Lau Kar Leung off the production shows his ego at play again, and it was a pretty disrespectful move to make. Some argue it improved the ending of the film, but the way it was done was plain wrong. Jackie always has to outshine everyone else in his films, as opposed to Sammo who presents others as the stars. I suspect the reason Ken Lo got the spotlight in DM2 is because of his off screen work with Jackie.

6. DM2 is not the best ever, in my opinion.

[rmoxon]

Sorry, couldn't log in earlier:

1. You made definitive statements, with superlatives, eg 'the greatest', etc etc. These weren't presented as opinions, so I pointed out we all are expressing our opinions, which differ and some can be wrong.

2. DM2 isn't a wire fu film.

3. Jackie Chan can carry a film, but contrary to your assertions, all films are a group production- we aren't watching a one man broadway stage show, Mike Tyson's doing one now actually.

4. DM2 is overrated because JC hadn't done anything like it for years preceding it. Also, it's hard to find status in the UK during the 90s meant it got placed on a lot of 'best ever' lists.

5. JC booting / pushing Lau Kar Leung off the production shows his ego at play again, and it was a pretty disrespectful move to make. Some argue it improved the ending of the film, but the way it was done was plain wrong. Jackie always has to outshine everyone else in his films, as opposed to Sammo who presents others as the stars. I suspect the reason Ken Lo got the spotlight in DM2 is because of his off screen work with Jackie.

6. DM2 is not the best ever, in my opinion.

There are no definitive statements in an Internet forum. People state their opinions, that's what the medium is for. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would know I was stating an opinion. There is no definitive answer to what is the best of anything after.

All films are group productions but not all films have the same focus. If you go into all films believing they should all be the same then you will often be disappointed. Drunken master 2 is all about jackie chan and that's why it's so great.

I never actually said it was the best martial arts film ever, just one of the best that uses wires. I like the fact that it didnt use a crap load of wire work. The wire work it does use compliments the film and never looks out of place, unlike it does in so many films.

The reason the film is so well respected is nothing to do with it being Chans first old school Kung fu film for years and to be honest that's a very snobby point of view to have. People like the film becuase many believe it has some of the best fight scenes ever made. And I personally agree with them.

[BaronSqwelch]

All this pointless arguing has made me download DM2 anyway...shame there is no perfect version available with the aspect ratio/mongy ending intact but it will be better than the cam copy I had years ago!

Asiandvdclub to the rescue!!

[rmoxon]

Yeah it's a shame we can't get a definitive version of the film released here.

To be fair though (or as fair as you can be when all things are considered) the butchered western version of the film isn't that bad. It isn't cut to shreads like many of Jackie's films have been (sometimes losing up to 20 minutes in the process) and Chans own dubbing of himself works ok (though the same cant be said for the rest of the voice overs).

Its still an amazing film though. The fact that it still works so well even when dubbed and messed around with proves how good a film it is really. The original version of the film is an unbelievably good piece of work.

[BaronSqwelch]

I could never watch a dub again. Ever!!

Its why I have always missed out on the lads/beer/kung fu flick shenanigans because my insistance on watching a subbed version annoys everyone else, so we end up watching crappy horrors instead

Version I have gone for is subbed and uncut but is cropped to 1:78.1 instead of the correct 2:35.1. Am more forgiving of that after years of putting up with pan&scan videos.

The western one I was going to go for as I thought it was just the "offensive" ending they had removed but apparently a lot of the sound effects have been altered.

[QualityChimp]

Right, enough of this!

rmoxon, don't come wandering into town looking for trouble when the town is a secret Shaolin training camp!

I think Shinobi took umbrage at this statement:

Saying anything is the best of anything is obviously an opinion, but I do believe it's somewhat of a fact

He hates umbrage so, as sifu of this thread and in charge of punishment whilst Prinny's away, I command that you do Bloodsport-style training montage splits whilst watching the DUBBED version of Fantasy Mission Force.



Your only chance of a pardon is if you actually post a review of a kung-fu flick you've seen recently or go and track down something you've not seen before, but always meant to!

[rmoxon]

I could never watch a dub again. Ever!!

Its why I have always missed out on the lads/beer/kung fu flick shenanigans because my insistance on watching a subbed version annoys everyone else, so we end up watching crappy horrors instead

Version I have gone for is subbed and uncut but is cropped to 1:78.1 instead of the correct 2:35.1. Am more forgiving of that after years of putting up with pan&scan videos.

The western one I was going to go for as I thought it was just the "offensive" ending they had removed but apparently a lot of the sound effects have been altered.

Yeah I hate English dubs too, but that dub is better better than most.

The western version (or "international version" as they seem to like to call them) does have altered sound effects and different music, it's nothing that bad though IMO, and at least you still get to see all the action, which you might not with a zoomed in cropped picture.

Right, enough of this!

rmoxon, don't come wandering into town looking for trouble when the town is a secret Shaolin training camp!

I think Shinobi took umbrage at this statement:


He hates umbrage so, as sifu of this thread and in charge of punishment whilst Prinny's away, I command that you do Bloodsport-style training montage splits whilst watching the DUBBED version of Fantasy Mission Force.



Your only chance of a pardon is if you actually post a review of a kung-fu flick you've seen recently or go and track down something you've not seen before, but always meant to!

I wasn't looking for trouble I was stating my opinion, which is why I said "I believe...". It's what I think. No need to take umbrage at it, but I could write a few quick reviews anyway..

I watched Flash Point with Donnie Yen and Fatal Contact with Jacky Wu.

Fatal Contact
This is a bit of an odd one. It's basically an actiony sports drama (that is in the mold of somthing like bloodsport oddly enough) with some really great moments during the fight scenes, a training sequence that's nearly as enjoyable as seeing Van Dammes balls separated, and it has an extremely likeable lead character, played with real charisma by Wu. The main focus of a lot of the film is a pretty charming love story that makes you really care about the characters, and so when the stakes are raised in the last act things are all the more exciting.

The fight scenes are good, although I did have a problem with how they all seemed to be filmed far too close to the actors (possibly an attempt to make it more gritty and in you face?) and so it was sometimes hard to appariciate what was some admittedly impressive choreography.

My real gripe about the film though was the ending. As stated this was a pretty charming film, that had some nice humour and characters you cared about, yet then the ending of the film comes, and well without wanting to spoil anything it just goes completely against the tone of everything that has previously happened, as well as being quite messy, and one character in particular just disappears completely without explination. It's a really odd conclusion to what was otherwise a very enjoyable film.

Flash Point
Oddly enough this isn't really a Stright action film either. More of a crime thriller about a cop being pushed over the edge with all the action taking place within the films third act. The film is never anything less than enjoyable though. The first hour of the film is all about raking up the tension. There are some really edge of your seat moments as the situation for the films main characters becomes more and more dire.

Then as the last act starts the entire film just explodes. Donnie Yen's character has been trying to control himself for the entire film but he just can't take it anymore and the last 30 minutes is basically just him shooting bad guys, punching bad guys, kicking bad guys and doing crazy MMA type moves on bad guys. Even during the climax, which is indeed just one long action sequence, the pacing is superb, with everyone using guns (in a fire fight of epic John woo like proportions) and then when they run out of bullets they take to kicking the crap out of each other.

In a stark contrast to Fatal Contact, the end of the film is definitely the most impressive part here. The last fight is about 10 minutes long and is really good stuff, as I said its full of MMA style grappling moves, which might not sound that impressive, but when people are using those moves to smash each others heads against concrete walls and metal bars it makes for a spectacularly brutal fight scene. Absolubtley fantastic way to end what was a really fun film.

[CMcK]

HMV have a Jackie Chan promotion on just now. Loads of classics on DVD for ?6 a go. Remastered discs no less I picked up New Fist of Fury, Hand of Death and two of my all time favourites Dragons Forever and Wheels on Meals.

[vanpeebles]

I wasn't looking for trouble I was stating my opinion, which is why I said "I believe...". It's what I think. No need to take umbrage at it, but I could write a few quick reviews anyway..

Damn you cheeky bastard! How dare you come in here and cause trouble!

[BaronSqwelch]

HMV have a Jackie Chan promotion on just now. Loads of classics on DVD for ?6 a go. Remastered discs no less I picked up New Fist of Fury, Hand of Death and two of my all time favourites Dragons Forever and Wheels on Meals.

Might have a look for Twin Dragons after finding my VHS the other day...one dub I quite liked..."You stupid dwarf! How dare you take me on!!" which I used to shout regularly at my 5 foot nothing girlfriend!!

[rmoxon]

Might have a look for Twin Dragons after finding my VHS the other day...one dub I quite liked..."You stupid dwarf! How dare you take me on!!" which I used to shout regularly at my 5 foot nothing girlfriend!!

I think the Twin Dragons DVD is the new dub where Jackie does his own voice. Although I could be wrong, I've got the DVD myself, but it's been in my "to watch" pile for years now.

[Fader209]

Is Chinese Zodiac supposed to be Chan's last action movie? I read this today yet I also saw a small interview he did where he said he would definitely consider appearing in Expendables 3.

[rmoxon]

He has said its his last, but he could have just meant it was the last time he starred in an action film. He probabaly wouldnt have much to do if he was in Expendables 3 considering the 12 seconds of screen time Jet li had in the first one.

[QualityChimp]

Thanks for the heads-up, CMcK! I may get Hand of Death myself. Those Cine Asia discs are the previously OOP Hong Kong Legends discs so are well worth picking up. I'm a bit addicted to going into a CEX a looking in their Martial Arts section for any HKL discs I may have missed, but this seems a bargain too!

Chan's not daft. He'd do action films as long as the money's there. I thought Chan and Stallone were friends? Kinda surprised that he wasn't in The Expendables.

rmoxon, you can stop doing your splits... for now.